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- From: Lovstrand@EuroPARC.Xerox.COM (Lennart Lovstrand)
- Subject: Re: 'cut'
- Date: 1 Aug 91 10:21:34 GMT
- References: <3121@pdxgate.UUCP>
- Sender: news@parc.xerox.com
-
- In article <3121@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- > In article <17303@life.ai.mit.edu> djh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (danny) writes:
- > >does anyone know where i could get the src or
- > >if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...
- >
- > Cut is a System V utility. Not surprising that you can't find it. There is
- > a BSD utility called 'colrm' for removing specified colums. You might try
- > that instead of cut until you can get the sources.
-
- You can get "cut" from the GNU fileutils package by anonymous ftp to
- prep.ai.mit.edu. See pub/gnu/fileutils-2.1.tar.Z.
-
- Please folks, try to somehow move over to the new comp.sys.next.xxx
- newsgroups. Do whatever necessary; bribe, threaten, or take your local
- sysadmin for a joyride on your NeXTmobile to make them available if they
- aren't already.
-
- --
- --Lennart <Lovstrand@EuroPARC.Xerox.COM>
- Rank Xerox EuroPARC, 61 Regent St, Cambridge, CB2 1AB, UK.
-
- ``The first thing we do let's kill all the lawyers.''
- [Hamlet, The First Part of the Contention, 4.2, line 78]
-
- From: shei@bogie.cs.indiana.edu (Shing Shong Shei)
- Subject: Re: Problems compiling Perl
- Date: 1 Aug 91 14:09:57 GMT
- References: <CEDMAN.91Jul28210645@714-856-8134.ps.uci.edu> <1991Jul31.193036.24539@news.cs.indiana.edu> <CEDMAN.91Jul31185951@714-856-8134.ps.uci.edu>
-
- In article <CEDMAN.91Jul31185951@714-856-8134.ps.uci.edu> cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
- > >This problem has nothing to do with the optimizer. It is with libnm.a
- > >which is included by default by Configure. Just run Configure again,
- > >and remove libnm.a. That will produce a perl which compiles and
- > >self-tests just fine.
- >
- > No, I don't think so. I did encounter the error message about the libnm.a
- > as described in the first message. I ranlib it and it did complain about
- > not symbol table. Still I went ahead and link it, the generated perl was
- > okay, i.e., it passed "make test".
- >
- >Why do you disagree ? We are saying exactly the same thing. Whether
- >you link by ignoring the libnm.a error messages or properly
- >reconfigure perl using Configure not to link libnm.a in at all does
- >not make the slightest difference.
-
- Sorry that I didn't make it clear. Yes, Carl was right that this has nothing
- to do with the optimizer. But there is a small difference in removing or not
- removing libnm.a. I didn't look into if taking out the libnm reduces some
- functionalities of perl or not. But "make test" sure doesn't test ALL
- functionalities of perl. In installing this version (4.010), at some stage, I
- got a version that passed "make test" but when I installed it to the system,
- some of the perl scripts failed to work. Anyway, the following script shows
- that perl does link with libnm.a.
-
- First, use "cc -v" to see how cc call the ld to link the perl. Then try to
- link one by yourself except adding "-M" asking ld to generate a load map.
-
- =======
- beldar: make CC="cc -v"
- cc -v array.o cmd.o cons.o consarg.o doarg.o doio.o dolist.o dump.o eval.o form.o hash.o perl.o regcomp.o regexec.o stab.o str.o toke.o util.o perly.o usersub.o -lnm -ldbm -lm -o perl
- NeXT Release 2.0 (v31.1) -- GNU version 1.36
- /bin/ld -o perl -lcrt0.o array.o cmd.o cons.o consarg.o doarg.o doio.o dolist.o dump.o eval.o form.o hash.o perl.o regcomp.o regexec.o stab.o str.o toke.o util.o perly.o usersub.o -lnm -ldbm -lm -lsys_s
- beldar: /bin/ld -M -o perl -lcrt0.o array.o cmd.o cons.o consarg.o doarg.o doio.o dolist.o dump.o eval.o form.o hash.o perl.o regcomp.o regexec.o stab.o str.o toke.o util.o perly.o usersub.o -lnm -ldbm -lm -lsys_s > /tmp/map
- =======
-
- Scan through the map, you will see:
-
- =======
- Load map for: perl
- Segment name Section name Address Size
- __PAGEZERO 0x00000000 0x00002000
-
- __TEXT 0x00002000 0x00030000
- __TEXT __text 0x00003a7c 0x00029480
- 0x00003a7c 0x000000a4 /lib/crt0.o
- 0x00003b20 0x00000514 array.o
- 0x00004034 0x000019fc cmd.o
- 0x00005a30 0x000020a4 cons.o
- 0x00007ad4 0x00002458 consarg.o
- 0x00009f2c 0x00002b24 doarg.o
- 0x0000ca50 0x00003c38 doio.o
- 0x00010688 0x00003274 dolist.o
- 0x000138fc 0x00006618 eval.o
- 0x00019f14 0x00000bd4 form.o
- 0x0001aae8 0x000009f0 hash.o
- 0x0001b4d8 0x000020e8 perl.o
- 0x0001d5c0 0x00001568 regcomp.o
- 0x0001eb28 0x00001034 regexec.o
- 0x0001fb5c 0x00001af0 stab.o
- 0x0002164c 0x00001f2c str.o
- 0x00023578 0x00006590 toke.o
- 0x00029b08 0x00000ed8 util.o
- 0x0002a9e0 0x00001df4 perly.o
- 0x0002c7d4 0x0000000c usersub.o
- 0x0002c7e0 0x00000050 /usr/lib/libnm.a(trig.o)
- 0x0002c830 0x000002a4 /usr/lib/libnm.a(atan2.o)
- 0x0002cad4 0x000002f4 /usr/lib/libnm.a(pow.o)
- 0x0002cdc8 0x00000034 /usr/lib/libnm.a(exp.o)
- 0x0002cdfc 0x0000002c /usr/lib/libnm.a(log.o)
- 0x0002ce28 0x0000002c /usr/lib/libnm.a(sqrt.o)
- 0x0002ce54 0x000000a8 /usr/lib/libnm.a(support.o)
- ...
- 0x0002f994 0x00000038 /usr/lib/libnm.a(atan2.o)
- 0x0002f9cc 0x00000028 /usr/lib/libnm.a(pow.o)
- __TEXT __cstring 0x0002f9f4 0x0000260a
- ...
- ======
-
- From: slp@genrad.uucp (Stephen L. Peters)
- Subject: Re: NeXT groups
- Date: 1 Aug 91 11:55:13 GMT
- References: <941@equinox.unr.edu> <907@daily-planet.concordia.ca>
- Sender: news@genrad.UUCP
-
- In article <907@daily-planet.concordia.ca> stefanos@concour.cs.concordia.ca (KIAKAS stefanos) writes:
- >the new groups are:
- >
- > comp.sys.next.misc
- > comp.sys.next.announce
- > comp.sys.next.programer (maybe 2 m's)
- > comp.sys.next.sysadmin
- >
- >hope this helps
-
- Yes, it's with 2 m's --
- comp.sys.next.programmer
-
- Now, all of you, shoo! Shoo shoo shoo!
- Go join comp.sys.next.misc -- you've already missed the two major
- flame wars this season -- one against NewsGrazer, the next against
- sef@kithrup.com Don't miss whatever the next battle is about to be!
-
- Stephen Peters
-
- From: weinri@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kevin Weinrich)
- Subject: Can't boot
- Summary: Just received used system, "Exception #2" on boot, help
- Date: 1 Aug 91 15:41:29 GMT
-
- Expires:
- References:
- Sender:weinri@athena.cs.uga.edu
-
- Keywords:
-
- We just had a cube "donated" (it's a long story) to us. I'm
- trying to get in touch with the donors, but in the meantime
- maybe one of you kind souls have seen this before (I've
- never used a NeXT before, I'm a Sun sysadmin):
- On boot, I see "Testing system" and "Loading from disk" with
- the appropriate graphic. Within a second of the graphic
- starting to "spin", I enter the ROM Monitor (2.2 (v63)) and
- get :
- Exception #2 (0x8) at 0x4380012
- and the Monitor prompt. With the Optical Cart. (Software Release
- 2.0) loaded, I try "bod test". Same result.
- I can't find anything about "Exceptions" in the few manuals it
- came with. Could this be due to a problem in shipping.
-
- I greatly appreciate any tips. Replies to weinri@athena.cs.uga.edu
- would be most welcome. I will try to get our sysadmin to add
- the new newsgroups, but they're not available yet, or I would
- have asked there.
- -Kevin Weinrich
-
- From: malkin@ksr.com (Alexander Malkin)
- Subject: Perl on NeXT?
- Date: 1 Aug 91 20:58:38 GMT
- Sender: news@ksr.com
-
- This is probably in a FAQ, but could someone tell me where to get Perl
- for the NeXT?
-
- Thanks.
-
- Alex (malkin@ksr.com or uunet!ksr!malkin)
-
- From: johnr%oceania@UUNET.UU.NET (John Robison)
- Subject: The new groups
- Date: 1 Aug 91 22:09:20 GMT
- Sender: johnr@oceania.UUCP (John Robison)
-
- OK all, forward this to your sysadmins
- to get the new groups. This is from
- news.announce.newgroups.
-
- [irrelevant stuff deleted]
-
- The following USENET groups have been created in the past month:
-
- GROUP ADD DATE NOTES
- ==============================================================================
- comp.sys.next.announce 7 Jul moderated, csn-announce@media.mit.edu
- comp.sys.next.misc 7 Jul
- comp.sys.next.programmer 7 Jul
- comp.sys.next.sysadmin 7 Jul
-
- John
-
- From: cdl@chiton.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
- Subject: Re: 'cut'
- Date: 1 Aug 91 14:52:33 GMT
- References: <17303@life.ai.mit.edu>
-
- In article <17303@life.ai.mit.edu> djh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (danny) writes:
- >hi!
- >i can seem to find this program in 2.0...
- >
- >does anyone know where i could get the src or
- >if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...
-
- A public-domain replacement has been around for quite a while. Look
- in (e.g.) gatekeeper.dec.com:pub/comp.sources.unix/volume8/cut+paste.Z
-
- Also ftp.uu.net:ftp/bsd-sources/usr.bin/cut
- " " paste
-
- Also wuarchive.wustl.edu:unix/4.3bsd-reno/usr.bin/cut
- " " paste
-
- Figuring that if you need cut, paste can't be far behind.
-
-
- From: nk@home.sybase.com
- Subject: Portable NeXTs... (Suggestion)
- Keywords: portable computers
- Date: 31 Jul 91 17:40:20 GMT
- Sender: news@Sybase.COM
-
-
- I was giving my officemate a demo of my NeXT box and it hit me that
- a portable version of the NeXT box would be really slick.
-
- Are there any plans for a portable NeXT box/slab?
-
- Here are some features it I think it should have:
-
- Half-height-drives (maybe 2 of them, 300Mb if possible)
- Size no larger than 9''x11''x2'' (able to fit into a briefcase easily)
- High-resolution mono-monitor. (???)
- Ability to sense ethernet and phone connections and appropriately mount or
- unmount filesystems, or start or stop uucp transmissions.
- Pause feature. (the machine can be "turned-off" and then back on without
- loss of machine state. Saves rebooting time.)
- Cellular modem (with proper error handling would be a plus, 9600 would be
- nice).
- Mouse/Track-ball options.
-
- What do you think?
-
-
- Nicolai Kosche nk@sybase.com {pyramid,sun,mtxinu}!sybase!nk
- I speak only for myself and I do not reflect the views or position of Sybase.
- Anything included in this message is provided at your own risk.
-
- From: toon@news.sara.nl
- Subject: Re: The new groups - hand made ? Why ?
- Date: 2 Aug 91 06:46:16 GMT
- References: <1991Aug1.220920.13565@oceania.UUCP>
-
- In article <1991Aug1.220920.13565@oceania.UUCP>,
- johnr%oceania@UUNET.UU.NET (John Robison) writes:
- > OK all, forward this to your sysadmins
- > to get the new groups. This is from
- > news.announce.newgroups.
- >
- > [irrelevant stuff deleted]
- >
- > The following USENET groups have been created in the past month:
-
- [... follow the well known four new groups ...]
-
- Why, in all the world, do these sites need human assistance for creating
- new (and approved) newsgroups ? I had 'm the day after they were announced
- because our news software (ANU-NEWS 6.0-3 on VMS) supports automatic
- execution of control messages. I am THE news manager for SARA.NL and I'm
- sure glad I don't have to deal with this kind of details myself (why do
- we have computers, anyway, if we can't automate laborious, tedious and
- unrewarding - oh, well, not in this special case, of course .-) - tasks).
- This way I am also sure that the rmgroup message that removes this
- newsgroup on the 2nd of September will execute without my intervention
- (see note below .-)
-
- From: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
- Subject: Re: Problems compiling Perl
- Date: 2 Aug 91 15:19:00 GMT
- References: <CEDMAN.91Jul28210645@714-856-8134.ps.uci.edu>
- <1991Jul31.193036.24539@news.cs.indiana.edu>
- <CEDMAN.91Jul31185951@714-856-8134.ps.uci.edu>
- <1991Aug1.091003.1257@news.cs.indiana.edu>
- Nntp-Posting-Host: 714-856-8134.nts.uci.edu
- In-reply-to: shei@bogie.cs.indiana.edu's message of 1 Aug 91 14:09:57 GMT
-
-
- Now I see your point. (Sorry, I thought you made the same point a
- several people have made in letters to me that a) they can't "rm
- libnm.a" because their sysadmin won't allow it or b) they can't find
- libnm.a anywhere in the makefiles or the Configure script (it is
- everywhere as -lnm)).
-
- On the other hand clearly all the routines in libnm.a are also in
- libm.a. I could not find any description of it anywhere in the
- extended or developers documentation. What _does_ libnm.a do over
- libm.a ?
-
- Carl Edman
- --
- Please do send mail to me at <cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu>. The local sendmail
- might be broken and until it is fixed the above address guarantees that I get
- at least one copy. Thank you.
-
- From: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
- Subject: Re: Perl on NeXT?
- Date: 2 Aug 91 15:23:51 GMT
- References: <4864@ksr.com>
- Nntp-Posting-Host: 714-856-8134.nts.uci.edu
- In-reply-to: malkin@ksr.com's message of 1 Aug 91 20:58:38 GMT
-
- In article <4864@ksr.com> malkin@ksr.com (Alexander Malkin) writes:
- This is probably in a FAQ, but could someone tell me where to get Perl
- for the NeXT?
-
- Get the source from any of the standard sites (e.g. prep.ai.mit.edu)
- via anon ftp. Run the Configure script. It will recognize a NeXT
- computer and give you almost all the defaults you want. The only
- exception is the line in which you are asked for the libraries to use.
- There are some problems with libnm.a (the -lnm switch). The easiest
- solution is to simply remove that switch (just give "-ldbm -lm" when
- querried instead of the default of "-lnm -ldbm -lm"). After that perl
- should have a few minor warnings during compilation but work without
- problems.
-
- Carl Edman
-
- --
- Please do send mail to me at <cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu>. The local sendmail
- might be broken and until it is fixed the above address guarantees that I get
- at least one copy. Thank you.
-
- From: philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick)
- Subject: Need help in buying decision
- Date: 2 Aug 91 17:04:15 GMT
- Sender: news@neon.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System)
-
- I'm a bit puzzled by the New NeXT's in November thread, where
- there seems to be doubt that NeXT will be using the 88K. There
- is an article in the San Francisco afternoon paper (Examiner?
- Chronicle? - bad memory for names) quoting Jobs as saying the
- 88K would blow away the MIPS R4000, as if everyone knew they
- were going to use it [1 August, business section].
-
- In any case: is someone from NeXT prepared to give details of
- short-term product plans to help me decide whether to go for
- NeXT? Please don't tell me all the advantages of NeXT over
- other platforms - I know that already.
-
- (I haven't read this group for a while, so I may have missed
- something.)
-
- From: delphys@ocean.cc.mcgill.ca (David HOLMES)
- Subject: Re: 'cut'
- Date: 2 Aug 91 16:50:18 GMT
- References: <17303@life.ai.mit.edu>
- Sender: news@cs.mcgill.ca (Netnews Administrator)
-
- In article <17303@life.ai.mit.edu> djh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (danny) writes:
- > hi!
- > i can seem to find this program in 2.0...
- >
- > does anyone know where i could get the src or
- > if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...
-
- We had the same problem with some backup scripts.
- You can find the compressed binaries on our ftp site
-
- archive.CC.McGill.CA
-
- as
-
- src/user-tools/cutBSD-4-NeXTs.Z
- src/user-tools/pasteBSD-4-NeXTs.Z
-
- ________ __________________________ __
- David Holmes McGILL UNIVERSITY
-
- UNIX Support Group - Computing Centre Montreal, CANADA
-
- email delphys@CC.McGill.CA voice 514-398-3716
- delphys@MCGILL1.BITNET FAX 514-398-6876
- NeXT email delphys@ocean.CC.McGill.CA
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
-
- From: gemoe@proximus.north.de (Gerhard Moeller)
- Subject: Re: 'cut'
- Date: 2 Aug 91 07:24:55 GMT
- References: <17303@life.ai.mit.edu>
- Sender: gemoe@proximus.north.de
-
- In article <17303@life.ai.mit.edu> djh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (danny) writes:
- > hi!
- > i can seem to find this program in 2.0...
- >
- > does anyone know where i could get the src or
- > if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...
- >
- > i just started using a NeXTstation and was used to using
- > /usr/bin/cut in my scripts that i carried over from SunOS.
- >
- > danny
-
- 'cut' is licenced by ATT (which is a modem-test-command). But you can get gcut
- from gnu.
- You should (hopefully) find it at prep.ai.mit.edu somwhere in
- u2/... The file you need is, I think, fileutils1.4.
- But if you can't find it and you can receive NeXT Mail, I'll send you mine.
- (Just tell me if you want the source or the executable...I hope I still have
- the source somewhere... ;-) )
-
- Fun, Gerhard.
- --
- +---------------------------< principiis obsta! >---------------------------+
- | Gerhard Moeller, Teichstrasse 12, 2900 Oldenburg (FRG) [Geb. 02/21/68] |
- | inhouse: gimli!gemoe NeXT: gemoe@proximus.north.de |
- |DOMAIN: Gerhard.Moeller@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE |
- |BITNET: gmoeller%arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de@DOLUNI1 (106495@DOLUNI1) |
- +-----------------------> the medium is the message <-----------------------+
-
- From: melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 3 Aug 91 01:52:42 GMT
- References: <7305@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> <ee=a02oc09tl01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
- <t88Hzj4r1@cs.psu.edu> <3120@pdxgate.UUCP>
- Sender: news@cs.psu.edu (Usenet)
-
-
- In article <3120@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
-
- Binary compatability with what. Almost every major manufacturer that
- has looked at the 88K has found it to be technologically deficient
- in several areas. Sure it's nice that Motorolla came out with a BCS,
- but since basically noone will be using it besides Motorolla and the
- few companies that sign on, it will be a very small customer base that
- can be targeted based on an 88K BCS. Incidentally, Intel, IBM, MIPS,
- SPARC, and most other RISCs also have binary compatability standards.
-
- Binary compatible with most every other NeXT!! That way people who
- set up networks of NeXTs don't have to play around with two different
- binaries.
-
- I'd agree that RISC is ONE OF the most promising technologies in the
- near future, but not Motorollas version of it. Their entire
- manufacturing facilities will have to be re-worked to support the
- manufacturing of the IBM POWER RISC chip, since it uses technology
- beyond that which Motorolla currently has. How do you expect them to
- compete with a RISC chipset that is inferior to the ones they will
- be producing for their competitors.
-
- Sabatoge IBM RISC? :-). Hire some smart people who know something
- about RISC?
-
- With Intel and IBM working on versions of their RISC processors that
- combine the best of RISC and VLIW technologies, and by the time that
- Motorolla gets up to speed, these other chips will be defacto standards
- with large installed customer bases and backwrad compatability with
- the first versions of their RISC-only processors.
-
- The 88K really is no more promising than the i860 is as a general
- purpose RISC chip. Admittedly, the i860 has more caveats than the
- Motorolla architecture, but the Motorolla is not doing much better.
-
- The current 88K is as fast or faster than the 68040, at least from the
- SPECmarks that I've seen. A lot will depend on NeXT. Will they ever
- sell 1 million machines a year? You might want to consider that
- Motorola might still have a little company pride, and they might not
- like the idea of making IBM's chips. Look at MIPS. They beat
- everyone in the microprocessor game. They're not exactly a large
- company.
-
- Betting your future on the 88K is almost as smart as betting it on
- the INMOS transputer. Neither one will probably get off the ground
- except in niche markets.
-
- This is 1991, the latter half of the 20th century. Switching
- microprocessors is only an inconvenience. It's not going to break
- every piece of software written for the NeXT(at least not
- significantly).
-
- By the fourth quarter of this year, IBM will have reduced the POWER
- architecture to a single chip implementation. Then they will start
- producing chips with more than a 25 MHz clock speed, and watch those
- SPECmarks jump. Motorolla, on the other hand, will still be working
- the bugs out of the 2 chip implementation of the 88K... Not a
- promising chip to bet your future on...
-
- You might be right. What's up with the 88110? Is it 60 mips or
- 100mips? NeXT might be better of going with the MIPS R3000,
- R4000(R6000...) chips. ACE(Microsoft/DEC/Compaq/MIPS) adopting these
- chips means that they will be *cheap*, and they're second sourced,
- unlike Motorola's chips.
-
- -Mike
-
- From: theo@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (theodore teoh choon sun)
- Subject: Cube for sale
- Date: 5 Aug 91 06:41:31 GMT
- Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp
-
- I have an 030 NeXT Cube for sale. The configurations are:
-
- 40 MB internal harddisk(for swapping)
- 8 MB RAM
- 1 Optical Drive
- 2 Optical disks (System 1.0 & 2.1)
- 1 2400bps modem
-
- I am asking for $3200.00 or best offer.
- I will share half the cost of shipping and handling.
- Interested party please e-mail to theo@doc.cc.utexas.ed
-
- From: dbg@sinix.UUCP (David George)
- Subject: Re: IBM-APPLE Merger
- Date: 5 Aug 91 14:17:19 GMT
- References: <3072@pdxgate.UUCP> <1991Jul23.232350.7221@math.ucla.edu> <1991Jul24.171310.29463@potomac.ads.com>
-
- In the August Edition of Personal Computer World they announced that the
- Apple-IBM deal was off for the forseable future, of course that may be
- a short time as this magazine claimed in 1987 that "OS2 will be to DOS
- what DOS was to CP/M".
-
- David.
-
- ref: Personal Computer World, U.K., Aug 1991, West Coast Feature.
-
- From: kenyee@ksr.com (Ken Yee)
- Subject: Portable code (GUI and otherwise)
- Date: 5 Aug 91 13:31:46 GMT
- Sender: news@ksr.com
-
- A couple of neophyte programming questions about programming the NeXT GUI:
-
- 1) Does g++ exist for the NeXT? I've heard rumors that it did. If it
- did, this would solve the non-portability of Objective-C programs
- to C++.
- 2) Does anyone make class libraries which are retargettable to MS-Windows,
- the Mac, X-windows, Motif, as well as NeXT?. I'd like to be able to
- take the same code and port it to different systems by just linking
- with different libraries; I've heard that XVT provides this functionality
- for MS-Windows, Mac, and X-windows...
-
- Ken (kenyee@ksr.com or uunet!ksr!kenyee)
-
- From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 5 Aug 91 17:46:06 GMT
- References: <7305@ns-mx.uiowa.edu: <ee=a02oc09tl01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com: <t88Hzj4r1@cs.psu.edu: <3120@pdxgate.UUCP: <ffaH5int1@cs.psu.edu:
- Sender: news@pdxgate.UUCP
-
- In article <ffaH5int1@cs.psu.edu: melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes:
- :
- :In article <3120@pdxgate.UUCP: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- : Binary compatability with what. Almost every major manufacturer that
- : has looked at the 88K has found it to be technologically deficient
- : in several areas. Sure it's nice that Motorolla came out with a BCS,
- : but since basically noone will be using it besides Motorolla and the
- : few companies that sign on, it will be a very small customer base that
- : can be targeted based on an 88K BCS. Incidentally, Intel, IBM, MIPS,
- : SPARC, and most other RISCs also have binary compatability standards.
- :
- :Binary compatible with most every other NeXT!! That way people who
- :set up networks of NeXTs don't have to play around with two different
- :binaries.
-
- That would be nice, but is also possible using any of the other major RISC
- chipsets that are currently available... License a little software technology,
- get a much better architecture in return... NeXT has plenty to bargain with!
-
- : I'd agree that RISC is ONE OF the most promising technologies in the
- : near future, but not Motorollas version of it. Their entire
- : manufacturing facilities will have to be re-worked to support the
- : manufacturing of the IBM POWER RISC chip, since it uses technology
- : beyond that which Motorolla currently has. How do you expect them to
- : compete with a RISC chipset that is inferior to the ones they will
- : be producing for their competitors.
- :
- :Sabatoge IBM RISC? :-). Hire some smart people who know something
- :about RISC?
-
- They should have done that a looooonnnng time ago :-) But seriously, the 88K
- line will not be developed past it's current state, or so Motorolla says. Why
- go with a dead chip. Sure it is fast, but if there is no room for upward growth
- within the same chip line, not a real good business decision. Maybe Steve has
- some inside info the rest of us don't.
-
- : With Intel and IBM working on versions of their RISC processors that
- : combine the best of RISC and VLIW technologies, and by the time that
- : Motorolla gets up to speed, these other chips will be defacto standards
- : with large installed customer bases and backwrad compatability with
- : the first versions of their RISC-only processors.
- :
- : The 88K really is no more promising than the i860 is as a general
- : purpose RISC chip. Admittedly, the i860 has more caveats than the
- : Motorolla architecture, but the Motorolla is not doing much better.
- :
- :The current 88K is as fast or faster than the 68040, at least from the
- :SPECmarks that I've seen. A lot will depend on NeXT. Will they ever
- :sell 1 million machines a year? You might want to consider that
- :Motorola might still have a little company pride, and they might not
- :like the idea of making IBM's chips. Look at MIPS. They beat
- :everyone in the microprocessor game. They're not exactly a large
- :company.
-
- FAST does not make good, or upgradeable into the future. And saying MIPS
- beats everyone in the microprocessor game is a bit ludicrous. They are
- struggling to keep up with the others right now. The R4000, when it arrives,
- is SUPPOSED to be a promising chip... We'll just have to see how it stacks
- up against the POWER chip, HP chips, etc.
-
- It's a good bet that IBM has some scary technology jumps in store for us in
- the near future, as they try to regain the market share they have lost in
- the past few years due to proprietary architectures, operating systems,
- software and networking strategies.
-
- BTW, the NeXT/IBM alliance is far from dead, from what I hear...
-
- : Betting your future on the 88K is almost as smart as betting it on
- : the INMOS transputer. Neither one will probably get off the ground
- : except in niche markets.
- :
- :This is 1991, the latter half of the 20th century. Switching
- :microprocessors is only an inconvenience. It's not going to break
- :every piece of software written for the NeXT(at least not
- :significantly).
-
- Try to tell VARs and secondary software developers this. Especially if
- they have tuned their application(s) to the current hardware. Sure, it
- is 1991, but it is not as easy as you would like to believe or have the
- rest of us believe. At least it will be easier for them to PORT to the
- new hardware and software, given the NeXT development environment, but
- it will NOT be trivial. It sounds like you have never done a major port!
-
- : By the fourth quarter of this year, IBM will have reduced the POWER
- : architecture to a single chip implementation. Then they will start
- : producing chips with more than a 25 MHz clock speed, and watch those
- : SPECmarks jump. Motorolla, on the other hand, will still be working
- : the bugs out of the 2 chip implementation of the 88K... Not a
- : promising chip to bet your future on...
- :
- :You might be right. What's up with the 88110? Is it 60 mips or
- :100mips? NeXT might be better of going with the MIPS R3000,
- :R4000(R6000...) chips. ACE(Microsoft/DEC/Compaq/MIPS) adopting these
- :chips means that they will be *cheap*, and they're second sourced,
- :unlike Motorola's chips.
-
-
- Chris
- __
- / ) /
- / /_ __ o _
- (__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_
-
- From: grw@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (George Wu)
- Subject: HitchHiker 1.1
- Date: 5 Aug 91 19:20:48 GMT
- Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr. News Himself)
-
-
- I am trying to use HitchHiker 1.1 on a NextStation and having problems
- when opening the serial port. It seems whenever I try to open up a
- serial port(a or b) the program immediately starts to send a stream of
- L's out to the port and clicking on the Parameters button bombs the
- program. The on-line documentation provides no clue as to what's
- going on here. Can anyone help ?
-
- Thanks,
- George Wu
-
-
- P.S. I am pretty sure the modem is hooked up correctly since I can run
- tip with no problems.
-
- From: melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 5 Aug 91 20:29:27 GMT
- References: <7305@ns-mx.uiowa.edu: <ee=a02oc09tl01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com:
- <t88Hzj4r1@cs.psu.edu: <3120@pdxgate.UUCP: <ffaH5int1@cs.psu.edu:
- <3160@pdxgate.UUCP>
- Sender: news@cs.psu.edu (Usenet)
-
-
- In article <3160@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
-
- Try to tell VARs and secondary software developers this. Especially if
- they have tuned their application(s) to the current hardware. Sure, it
- is 1991, but it is not as easy as you would like to believe or have the
- rest of us believe. At least it will be easier for them to PORT to the
- new hardware and software, given the NeXT development environment, but
- it will NOT be trivial. It sounds like you have never done a major port!
-
-
- How are developers tuning their apps for the 68040? NeXT has some
- work to do, but most developers don't have much work at all! They can
- build 68040 and 88K (or any other chip) binaries from a single source.
- Possibly the same source they're using today.
-
- -Mike
-
- From: bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 5 Aug 91 21:42:17 GMT
- References: <7305@ns-mx.uiowa.edu: <ee=a02oc09tl01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com:
- <t88Hzj4r1@cs.psu.edu: <3120@pdxgate.UUCP: <ffaH5int1@cs.psu.edu:
- <3160@pdxgate.UUCP> <uq4Hdx#v1@cs.psu.edu>
- Sender: news@MorningStar.Com
-
- In article <uq4Hdx#v1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes:
- In article <3160@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- ...Especially if [VARs and secondary software developers] have
- tuned their application(s) to the current hardware.
-
- How are developers tuning their apps for the 68040?
-
- Usually without much effort at all. It's very easy to write code that
- runs well on one type of processor architecture. The hard work comes
- in writing very portable code without any assumptions about the
- underlying iron.
-
- NeXT has some work to do, but most developers don't have much work
- at all!
-
- It depends upon how much work the developers did up front to make
- their code portable. If they're experienced in writing code to run on
- a variety of processors, then their code is probably already most of
- the way there. If they have only worked on one or two types of
- machines, then they may discover a lot of hidden assumptions.
-
- Not to sound snooty or anything, but how many NeXT developers came
- "up" from (e.g.) Macintoshes, and how many came "down" from other UNIX
- systems? The former group has been living in a sheltered, forcibly
- homogenous world, where the biggest shock in recorded history was the
- introduction of Color QuickDraw and 32-bit addressing, which wouldn't
- have bothered any of them if they had been writing portable code in
- the first place. The latter group has seen it all before, and will
- have a much easier time of it.
-
- They can build 68040 and 88K (or any other chip) binaries from a
- single source. Possibly the same source they're using today.
-
- Yes, they can, if the code is well written. But the toughest time in
- any UNIX code's life cycle is typically its first port to a RISC
- architecture. I've ported "super-portable" code that was written on a
- VAX to a Sun-1 and a Sun-2 and a Pyramid, and from a Sun-1 to a Sun-2
- to a Sun-3 to a Sun-4, and from several other things to 88K and MIPS
- and IBM RTs and RS/6000s. It's uniformly harder to move from a CISC
- machine to a RISC machine, because the RISC machines are uniformly
- pickier. If the author isn't careful about the original assumptions
- about (e.g.) byte ordering and structure packing and array index
- incrementing efficiency (row vs column), it can sometimes be easier to
- pitch the code and rewrite it all from the specs. If they still
- exist.
-
- From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 5 Aug 91 22:11:53 GMT
- References: <7305@ns-mx.uiowa.edu: <ee=a02oc09tl01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com: <t88Hzj4r1@cs.psu.edu: <3120@pdxgate.UUCP: <ffaH5int1@cs.psu.edu: <3160@pdxgate.UUCP> <uq4Hdx#v1@cs.psu.edu>
- Sender: news@pdxgate.UUCP
-
-
- In article <uq4Hdx#v1@cs.psu.edu> you write:
- >
- >In article <3160@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- >
- > Try to tell VARs and secondary software developers this. Especially if
- > they have tuned their application(s) to the current hardware. Sure, it
- > is 1991, but it is not as easy as you would like to believe or have the
- > rest of us believe. At least it will be easier for them to PORT to the
- > new hardware and software, given the NeXT development environment, but
- > it will NOT be trivial. It sounds like you have never done a major port!
- >
- >
- >How are developers tuning their apps for the 68040? NeXT has some
- >work to do, but most developers don't have much work at all! They can
- >build 68040 and 88K (or any other chip) binaries from a single source.
- >Possibly the same source they're using today.
-
- In many cases this is true, but it is NOT true in many other cases. Have you
- ever ported a large application before? Have you ever written a large app
- before--One which REQUIRED the use of assembly level programming for
- time critical apps or specialized optimization? In my experience, even moving
- apps from one BSD 4.3 system to another BSD 4.3 system (both may be variants)
- are not always as simple and straight-forward as you imply.
-
- What if large portions of the optimized software I write is assembly for
- the 68040. I suppose you think that this would require a minor port to
- the 88K. I don't think so. Nor do many other independent software
- developers. Believe it or not, many time critical and specialy optimized
- pieces of code are STILL WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE.
-
- Of course if you have some special tool that will migrate 680x0 assembly
- to 88K assembly transparently and without programmer intervention, I think
- a lot of people might become real interested (if NeXT moves to an 88K
- platform). I'd be one of them.
-
- Chris
- __
- / ) /
- / /_ __ o _
- (__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_
-
- From: rgc@risky.med.jhu.edu (Ross G. Cutler)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 6 Aug 91 05:47:06 GMT
- References: <3160@pdxgate.UUCP> <uq4Hdx#v1@cs.psu.edu> <3166@pdxgate.UUCP>
- Sender: rgc@risky.med.jhu.edu
-
- In article <3166@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@psuorpn.UUCP (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- [stuff deleted]
- >developers. Believe it or not, many time critical and specialy optimized
- >pieces of code are STILL WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE.
-
- Admittedly, some stuff is written in assembly for speed, but
- how many NeXTstep Apps are? That is the real question... My guess is
- that virtually none use assembly (except for some DSP stuff). In all of the
- NeXT PD source code that I've looked through in the archives, I haven't see
- one line of 68000 assembly code. NeXT doesn't want people to use
- assembly, and this is reflected in the total lack of documentation for
- as(1). Personally, I think this is a Good Thing, even though I use
- assembly myself (for hacks only). In summary, I don't foresee any big
- problems in porting large applications (e.g. Improv, WP, Diagram), since
- I doubt very much that any of these packages have any assembly code in them
- at all. Ross.
-
- NeXTstep: It not like your father's computing environment...
-
- From: lloyd@OTTO.UCC.UMASS.EDU (Lloyd)
- Subject: Re: DADiSP 2.01C Demo
- Date: 6 Aug 91 06:37:45 GMT
- Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
-
-
-
- GEEEE, was that ported from MS-DOS???? I would have NEVER guessed.
- *GAG*
-
- Chris
- lloyd@otto.ucc.umass.edu
-
- From: lloyd@OTTO.UCC.UMASS.EDU (Lloyd)
- Subject: 68k->88k
- Date: 6 Aug 91 02:42:27 GMT
- Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
-
-
- [ blah blah, all sorts of stuff about going to the 88k and porting]
-
- FINE, porting is no small task, thats not really the point, who cares if
- porting from VMS with little endian processor, diff compilers, diff libs
- etc etc to a Sun 3 is some work. The *point* is porting from 68k NeXT to 88K
- NeXT:
-
- 68k and 88k will have the same endianess (88k can be big or small)
- The OS will be the same.
- The libraries will be the same.
- The word size will be the same.
- The files will be in the same place.
- etc etc ETC ...
-
- The only data point really is anything that revolves around assembler,
- which is small to non-existant in *most* cases, fine, someone may have
- an entire app out there in 68k, they knew it would be unportable the minute
- they started it. I am currently writing some code which requires small little
- bits of asm for bitfield work, its isolated and uses gcc in-line assembler
- directives, it will take me about 15 minutes to port to the 88k. Big deal.
-
- I sincerely do not think there is all that much 68k assembler for the NeXT
- out there...if there is, I would be interested to hear from people, and
- how much they actually have to port and *why* they did it in assembler in the
- first place.
-
- Chris
- lloyd@otto.ucc.umass.edu
-
- From: kari@finn (Kari Karhi)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 6 Aug 91 14:14:59 GMT
- References: <1991Aug6.054706.21642@boingo.med.jhu.edu>
- Sender: usenet@pensoft.uucp (Usenet Psuedo User)
-
- In article <1991Aug6.054706.21642@boingo.med.jhu.edu> rgc@risky.med.jhu.edu
- (Ross G. Cutler) writes:
- > Admittedly, some stuff is written in assembly for speed, but
- > how many NeXTstep Apps are? That is the real question... My guess is
-
- co-Xist server uses some asm() calls that are mc680x0 specific.
-
- From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 6 Aug 91 18:07:06 GMT
- References: <3160@pdxgate.UUCP: <uq4Hdx#v1@cs.psu.edu: <3166@pdxgate.UUCP: <1991Aug6.054706.21642@boingo.med.jhu.edu:
- Sender: news@pdxgate.UUCP
-
- In article <1991Aug6.054706.21642@boingo.med.jhu.edu: rgc@risky.med.jhu.edu (Ross G. Cutler) writes:
- :In article <3166@pdxgate.UUCP: a0cb@psuorpn.UUCP (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- :[stuff deleted]
- ::developers. Believe it or not, many time critical and specialy optimized
- ::pieces of code are STILL WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE.
- :
- :Admittedly, some stuff is written in assembly for speed, but
- :how many NeXTstep Apps are? That is the real question... My guess is
- :that virtually none use assembly (except for some DSP stuff). In all of the
- :NeXT PD source code that I've looked through in the archives, I haven't see
- :one line of 68000 assembly code. NeXT doesn't want people to use
- :assembly, and this is reflected in the total lack of documentation for
- :as(1). Personally, I think this is a Good Thing, even though I use
- :assembly myself (for hacks only). In summary, I don't foresee any big
- :problems in porting large applications (e.g. Improv, WP, Diagram), since
- :I doubt very much that any of these packages have any assembly code in them
- :at all. Ross.
- :
-
- I seem to remember that EDIT and several other apps were written in assembly.
- Just because you have not found any assembler in the marginally helpful,
- generally small pieces of software on the archives does not mean that the
- proprietary apps don't have them.
-
- Try porting code from a CISC to a RISC. If you have not taken the UTMOST
- care to make the code portable, it is a bitch... It doesn't even have to
- be assembly language we are talking about. Many programmers make incorrect
- assumptions about a variety of things (bit operations, bit fields, byte
- ordering, to name a few) that make it very difficult to port from a CISC
- to a RISC, or even to another different CISC.
-
- In addition, Who says that these developers only want to develop for the
- NeXT. With the new SGI boxes, people may want to write portable apps for
- both boxes. Multimedia apps. Do that in a portable fashion. Especially
- graphics and sound... Oh, and don't use any assembly for the processors
- that do not even have C or other language compilers.
-
- Chris
- __
- / ) /
- / /_ __ o _
- (__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_
-
- From: rgc@risky.med.jhu.edu (Ross G. Cutler)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 6 Aug 91 19:43:30 GMT
- References: <3166@pdxgate.UUCP: <1991Aug6.054706.21642@boingo.med.jhu.edu: <3175@pdxgate.UUCP>
-
- [stuff deleted]
- In article <3175@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@psuorpn.UUCP (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- >
- >I seem to remember that EDIT and several other apps were written in assembly.
- >Just because you have not found any assembler in the marginally helpful,
- >generally small pieces of software on the archives does not mean that the
- >proprietary apps don't have them.
-
- How do you know Edit was written in Assembly? Did you see the source?
- It doesn't make any sense to me that it would be. In fact, if you type
-
- otool -v -o /NextApps/Edit
-
- you can see that there are lots of custom Obj-C files. I could not find any
- traces of *.s files in Edit; it is possible that some assembly was used...
- but I highly doubt it. GCC is a very good compiler, and produces very good
- code. And since the NeXT is damn fast (as least as far as apps like Edit is
- concerned), why would any programmer taint his OOP code with assembly?
-
- Ross.
-
- From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 6 Aug 91 22:36:22 GMT
- References: <3166@pdxgate.UUCP: <1991Aug6.054706.21642@boingo.med.jhu.edu: <3175@pdxgate.UUCP> <1991Aug6.194330.28967@boingo.med.jhu.edu>
- Sender: news@pdxgate.UUCP
-
- In article <1991Aug6.194330.28967@boingo.med.jhu.edu> you write:
- >[stuff deleted]
- >In article <3175@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@psuorpn.UUCP (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- >>
- >>I seem to remember that EDIT and several other apps were written in assembly.
- >>Just because you have not found any assembler in the marginally helpful,
- >>generally small pieces of software on the archives does not mean that the
- >>proprietary apps don't have them.
- >
- >How do you know Edit was written in Assembly? Did you see the source?
- >It doesn't make any sense to me that it would be. In fact, if you type
- >
- > otool -v -o /NextApps/Edit
- >
- >you can see that there are lots of custom Obj-C files. I could not find any
- >traces of *.s files in Edit; it is possible that some assembly was used...
- >but I highly doubt it. GCC is a very good compiler, and produces very good
- >code. And since the NeXT is damn fast (as least as far as apps like Edit is
- >concerned), why would any programmer taint his OOP code with assembly?
-
- Well, I might be wrong, but then the thread about EDIT originally being
- written in MOSTLY assembly that occurred in reference to another thread
- on comp.sys.next should have drawn a little more heat than it did...
- How do you know that large portions were not written in assembly?
- Did you see the source? Another Poster has pointed out that CoXist has
- several assembly hacks to get the job done... I was just pointing out one
- app that I heard had some major assembly work in it...
-
- I find it interesting that you say "taint", when most or all of the
- programmers and application developers I know tend to optimize and
- write time critical apps with combinations of C *AND* assembly. Have
- you ever written real time apps, time critical apps, or done your
- own optimization? (No, the -O option does not count)
-
- In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
- GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
- processor. RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
- on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes. The
- compiler has to make use of the pipelines and superscalar architecture
- of the RISC chip, in addition to the register allocation problems
- and the limitations of addressing memory directly versus through
- the cache. Why do you think IBM has a 37% improvement in SPECmarks
- without changing the clock speed of the RS/6000s, only the compilers
- were changed... BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
- techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
- information that the GNU project will not have access to...
-
- RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
- chip. Poor compiler technique can result in a RISC that has a phenomenal
- MIPS and MFLOPS rating, but can't outcompute an a 68K apple.
-
- Chris
- __
- / ) /
- / /_ __ o _
- (__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_
-
- From: rgc@risky.med.jhu.edu (Ross G. Cutler)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 7 Aug 91 00:17:50 GMT
- References: <3175@pdxgate.UUCP> <1991Aug6.194330.28967@boingo.med.jhu.edu> <3183@pdxgate.UUCP>
-
- In article <3183@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@psuorpn.UUCP (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- [stuff deleted]
- >Well, I might be wrong, but then the thread about EDIT originally being
- >written in MOSTLY assembly that occurred in reference to another thread
- >on comp.sys.next should have drawn a little more heat than it did...
- >How do you know that large portions were not written in assembly?
- >Did you see the source? Another Poster has pointed out that CoXist has
- >several assembly hacks to get the job done... I was just pointing out one
- >app that I heard had some major assembly work in it...
- >
- >I find it interesting that you say "taint", when most or all of the
- >programmers and application developers I know tend to optimize and
- >write time critical apps with combinations of C *AND* assembly. Have
- >you ever written real time apps, time critical apps, or done your
- >own optimization? (No, the -O option does not count)
- >
- >In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
- >GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
- >processor. RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
- >on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes. The
- >compiler has to make use of the pipelines and superscalar architecture
- >of the RISC chip, in addition to the register allocation problems
- >and the limitations of addressing memory directly versus through
- >the cache. Why do you think IBM has a 37% improvement in SPECmarks
- >without changing the clock speed of the RS/6000s, only the compilers
- >were changed... BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
- >techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
- >information that the GNU project will not have access to...
- >
- >RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
- >chip. Poor compiler technique can result in a RISC that has a phenomenal
- >MIPS and MFLOPS rating, but can't outcompute an a 68K apple.
-
- Sure, I've done lots of 286 assembly work with C, including realtime
- work. I even wrote an entire Core-like graphics library in assembly for
- C, because speed was of the utmost importance. But that was then, on on
- relatively slow computers...now we have Objective-C and a relatively fast
- computer. You don't *need* assembly for applications like Improv or
- Adobe Illustrator. And the NeXT *isn't* realtime (we still use PCs for
- that...).
-
- I said "taint" because OOP is very *high* level, and assembly is very
- *low* level. You say you program in "C and assembly"; currently, I do
- most of my programming in Objective-C (or C++). OOP is what the NeXT is
- about. Assembly isn't. That's why it isn't supported at *all*.
-
- Finally, GCC is available on at least two RISC computers, namely the
- Sun SPARCstations (SPARC CPU) and the DEC DECstations (MIPS R2/3000).
- It might be availably for the PS/6000 and Snakes too. So NeXT
- is not starting from scratch (i.e. your CISC != RISC statement isn't
- very relavent).
-
- Ross.
-
- From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 7 Aug 91 00:11:18 GMT
- References: <3175@pdxgate.UUCP> <1991Aug6.194330.28967@boingo.med.jhu.edu> <3183@pdxgate.UUCP>
-
- In article <3183@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@psuorpn.UUCP (Chris Bertholf) writes:
- >In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
- >GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
- >processor.
-
- It already has been. Gcc-2 (still in alpha, "Soon" to be beta) has a lot of
- features to work well on a RISC machine, including the 88k.
-
- >RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
- >on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes.
-
- Not much. That's one of the interesting things about CISC vs. RISC:
- someone once made a compiler only use the "simple" instructions on a VAX
- (including simple addressing modes), and benchmarked the output with the
- output of the unmodified compiler. Result: the RISC-based approach was
- faster. (I really wish I could remember where this was; I'm pretty sure it
- was in a UseNIX paper within the past two or three years.)
-
- Code generation that produces fast code on a '40 is going to pretty much do
- the same thing on an 88k (remember that the complex addressing modes on the
- '40 are slower than the "simple" ones).
-
- >BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
- >techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
- >information that the GNU project will not have access to...
-
- Uhm, most of the stuff IBM is doing is pretty obvious to people writing
- compilers. As I said, gcc-2 is no slouch on RISC machines (I've been told
- that it outperforms most other compilers for the Sparc, including Sun's; I
- don't have any figures, though, so that's just anecdotal).
-
- >RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
- >chip.
-
- So is a CISC chip. Sheesh.
-
-
- From: melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger)
- Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
- Date: 7 Aug 91 01:30:48 GMT
- References: <3166@pdxgate.UUCP: <1991Aug6.054706.21642@boingo.med.jhu.edu:
- <3175@pdxgate.UUCP> <1991Aug6.194330.28967@boingo.med.jhu.edu>
- <3183@pdxgate.UUCP>
- Sender: news@cs.psu.edu (Usenet)
- In-Reply-To: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu's message of 6 Aug 91 22: 36:22 GMT
- Nntp-Posting-Host: sunws0.sys.cs.psu.edu
-
-
- In article <3183@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
-
- In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
- GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
- processor. RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
- on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes. The
- compiler has to make use of the pipelines and superscalar architecture
- of the RISC chip, in addition to the register allocation problems
- and the limitations of addressing memory directly versus through
- the cache. Why do you think IBM has a 37% improvement in SPECmarks
- without changing the clock speed of the RS/6000s, only the compilers
- were changed... BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
- techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
- information that the GNU project will not have access to...
-
- GNU GCC has already been ported to the 88K. Data General has been
- using it for quite some time. Compiler technology plays a *very*
- important role in RISC processors.
-
- RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
- chip. Poor compiler technique can result in a RISC that has a phenomenal
- MIPS and MFLOPS rating, but can't outcompute an a 68K apple.
-
- We already know this. RISC isn't exactly new. There are just a few
- workstation vendors that haven't made the move to RISC yet. NeXT, and
- ... that's all I can think of. GCC 2.0 will be in out sometime in the
- next several months and it will include many improvements in the
- optimizer, especially ones for RISC processors. The FSF claims that
- it's as good (or comes close?) to Sun's commercial compiler for
- generating Sparc code.
-
- -Mike
-
- From: brian@beerwolf.umd.edu (Brian Cuthie)
- Subject: Re: Peripheral questions
- Date: 18 Aug 91 13:19:45 GMT
- References: <1774@endor.das.harvard.edu.harvard.edu>
- Sender: newspost@umbc3.umbc.edu (News posting account)
-
- In article <1774@endor.das.harvard.edu.harvard.edu> kochhar@das.harvard.edu
- (Sandeep Kochhar) writes:
-
- < Edited for television viewing >
-
- > I'm in the process of buying a NeXT machine (the basic 105M slab) for home
- > use, and I had a couple of questions about peripheral devices:
- >
- > 1. Can any SCSI external disk drive that I see in PC or MAC magazine be
- > used with a NeXT?
- > Do you have any recommendations (or "avoid this brand" advice) about
- > where I could get a decently priced drive (about 300-600 Megs)?
- >
- > 2. I also am looking at buying a Tape Drive both for Backups and for
- > transferring large amounts of data between the NeXT and a
- > Sun Sparcstation at work. The Sun Sparcstations that I have
- > access to use a Cartridge Tape Drive that, I think, uses a
- > format called "Quick 150". Anyone know where I could get a
- > tape drive for that (and approx prices...)? If that is a bad
- > choice, please let me know as well...
- >
-
- Whatever you do, these days, buy a DAT drive. The DDS standard (which is used
- in the DAT drives) is compatible accross drive manufacturers. What's nice
- about DAT is that you get 2 gig on a $10 tape with a transfer rate of 10M
- bytes/minute. The QIC (Quarter Inch Cartridge) drives are a little less
- expensive, but you will pay for it in time and tapes (they are about $20 - $30
- each -- and you'll need more of them) over the long haul.
-
- I recommend the Archive DAT drive. It can be had from several mail order
- houses that list in the back of MacUser. It's not black but it is real nice.
- I got mine from APS (big ads in the back of MacUser and MacWorld) for about
- $1500.
-
- BTW: Avoid the scum company that is advertising in the back of MacUser and
- MacWorld. They claim to be a mail order house, *but* they have a 900 number
- instead of an 800 number. They want several dollars a minute to place an order
- by telephone *and* they want $10 (!!!) if you call their 900 FAX number! I
- believe the schmucks call themselves "Bottom Line". Obviously they're more
- concerned with *their* bottom line than yours...
-
- -Brian
-
- > Please reply by e-mail if possible.
- >
- > Thanks.
- >
- > Sandeep Kochhar
-
- From: ekouba@afit.af.mil (Eric T. Kouba)
- Subject: crash with writenow
- Date: 19 Aug 91 17:31:22 GMT
-
- I have a new 8/200 machine that has been giving me problems at
- random intervals. I have been using mainly WriteNow, so that
- is where the crashes occur. After creating a new document, or
- opening up a new one, and after some period of editing (with
- or without saves in between), I get a panic dialog box popping
- up. Something about invalid descriptor during table walk.
- I wrote down all of the relevent codes the last time it happened,
- but don't have it with me at the moment. From what I've heard,
- WriteNow is supposed to be a fairly hardy piece of software,
- so that leaves just the operating system. What kind of bug
- would pop up at random intervals like that?
-
- Thanks in advance.
-
- From: eboltz@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Eric Scott Boltz)
- Subject: NeXTCube For Sale
- Keywords: sale
- Date: 19 Aug 91 18:56:26 GMT
-
- **** POSTING FOR A FRIEND ****
- **** PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND ****
- **** TO THIS ACCOUNT ****
-
-
- Eric,
-
- Please post this for me.
-
- I am selling the following NeXT configuration.
-
- Original NeXTCube w/ megapixel display
- Upgraded to 68040 & version 2.1 of the OS
- 667 Megabyte Wren drive
- 256 Megabyte Optical drive w/ two cartridges
- 12 Megabytes of RAM
-
- This system is in exelent condition. Asking $7000 or best reasonable
- offer.
-
- Send inquires to ALANDAIL@applelink.apple.com
-
-
- From: simsong@nextworld.com (Simson L. Garfinkel)
- Subject: GNU source-code availability
- Date: 19 Aug 91 18:19:13 GMT
- Sender: simsong@NeXTWORLD.COM
-
- I just spoke with the appropriate people at NeXT. There have been
- numerous hold-ups and the company hopes to ship the floppy disks by
- October. (Groan).
-
- However, I'm working with them to see if I can get a copy sometime
- this week, which I will make available for FTP, once I get it.
-
- ................................................................simso
- n
-
-
-
- -- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
- M>UQR=&8P7&%N<VE[7&9O;G1T8FQ<9C!<9G-W:7-S($AE;'9E=&EC83M]"EQM
- M87)G;#$R,`I<;6%R9W(Q,C`*>UQC;VQO<G1B;%QR960P7&=R965N,%QB;'5E
- M,#M]"EQP87)D7'1X-3,S7'1X,3`V-UQT>#$V,#%<='@R,3,U7'1X,C8V.%QT
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- M<&5O<&QE(&%T($YE6%0N("!4:&5R92!H879E(&)E96X@;G5M97)O=7,@:&]L
- M9"UU<',@86YD('1H92!C;VUP86YY(&AO<&5S('1O('-H:7`@=&AE(&9L;W!P
- M>2!D:7-K<R!B>2!/8W1O8F5R+B`@*$=R;V%N*2X@(%P*7`I(;W=E=F5R+"!)
- M)VT@=V]R:VEN9R!W:71H('1H96T@=&\@<V5E(&EF($D@8V%N(&=E="!A(&-O
- M<'D@<V]M971I;64@=&AI<R!W965K+"!W:&EC:"!)('=I;&P@;6%K92!A=F%I
- M;&%B;&4@9F]R($944"P@;VYC92!)(&=E="!I="Y<"EP*+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN
- M+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN
- 4+BXN+BXN+G-I;7-O;EP*7`H*?0HN
- `
-
- From: johnr%oceania@UUNET.UU.NET (John Robison)
- Subject: Can't ignore (Was: Testing ... please ignore)
- Date: 19 Aug 91 19:59:19 GMT
- References: <1991Aug16.182822.370@wcraft.wimsey.bc.ca>
- Sender: johnr@oceania.UUCP (John Robison)
-
- In article <1991Aug16.182822.370@wcraft.wimsey.bc.ca> Joseph Chin writes:
- > This is a test post. No one should be reading this news group anyways!
- > --
-
- BZZZTT! WRONG!!
-
- This newsgroup is still being carried around the globe.
- People are still reading (and paying) for it.
-
- If you *MUST* play with posting, use the "to" group you should
- have created when you installed news. This group is specifically
- for local "testing". There is also a "local" for distribution,
- or you can post to misc.test or other groups specifically
- designed for testing you outgoing news functionality.
-
- Our "local" group is "to.oceania". Look for the local group
- and play there. "Testing" the capabilities of NewsGrazer
- to c.s.next is certainly something we can do without!!!!
-
- John
-
- From: muilu@finsun.csc.fi (Juha Muilu)
- Subject: software dealers in usa
- Date: 20 Aug 91 15:20:07 GMT
- Sender: usenet@nic.funet.fi
- Nntp-Posting-Host: finsun.csc.fi
-
-
- Hey,
- Could somebody send a fax number(s) of the good NeXT-software
- dealeri(s) in USA. Thanks.
- - Juha
- jmuilu@joyds3.joensuu.fi
-
- From: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen)
- Subject: Employment for NeXT Developers
- Date: 20 Aug 91 17:26:00 GMT
- Sender: rnielsen@everest.com (Robert D. Nielsen)
-
- Everest Technology, Inc. is looking for three NeXT Developers. Everest is
- preparing to increasing its staff to meet the demands of a large consulting
- contract.
-
- These positions, which are full time and permanent, will require relocation to
- the Bay Area in October.
-
- The requirements are
- 3 years C development experience
- 2 years NeXTstep development experience
-
- Previous application development using the Sound Kit a plus.
- Oracle experience a plus
-
- Please respond via email.
- No calls please.
-
- --
- Robert D. Nielsen
- Everest Technology, Inc.
- Palo Alto, California
-
- Voice (415) 326 2130
- NeXTfax (415) 326 2131
-
- NeXTmail rnielsen@everest.com
-
- From: tilley@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Richard Tilley)
- Subject: Re: crash with writenow
- Date: 20 Aug 91 20:48:44 GMT
- References: <1991Aug19.173122.3327@afit.af.mil>
-
- WriteNow craps often. Your Saves should be oftener :-)
- A case-insensative find for "the" in the "core" file
- using Edit can recover some data. Usually many copies.
-
- From: tms@twins.lanl.gov (Todd M. Swan)
- Subject: SimuLEARN
- Date: 21 Aug 91 15:56:33 GMT
- Sender: news@beta.lanl.gov (Usenet News)
-
- I have been reading through the Spring 1991 NeXT Software and
- Peripherals guide and I hav come across one of interest, SimuLEARN by
- Knowlege Transfer International. But when I call the number it is
- out of service. I called directory assistance and there is no
- listing. Has anyone heard of or dealt with this product or company
- or are they dead in the water? E-mail replies please...
-
- Todd
-
- --
- ================================================================
- ! PLEASE DEFINE: ! NeXT mail ! Todd M. Swan !
- ! Ignorance ! replies are ! tms@twins.lanl.gov !
- ! Apathy ! encouraged! ! Los Alamos National Lab !
- =====================================! Los Alamos, NM !
- ! I don't know and ! LANL is not responsible !
- ! I don't care.... ! for my actions or words !
- ================================================================
-
-
- -- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
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- M/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/2`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("!<"@I]
- !"CT]
- `
-
- From: derek@stdb.jhuapl.edu (Derek at SFA)
- Subject: Cheap memory and HardDrives Where?
- Date: 21 Aug 91 20:26:39 GMT
- Sender: news@aplcomm.JHUAPL.EDU
-
- I am looking for a place for cheap memory/HD. I have seen numerous postings but
- do not have the name/number around. I believe chip merchant has been
- mentioned alot. Any help appreciated. e-mail preferred.
-
- =derek
-
- From: jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kirsten C. Jacobus)
- Subject: GIF converter
- Date: 21 Aug 91 21:48:44 GMT
-
- Are there any GIF readers/converters out there in PD/FTP land for the
- NeXT?
-
-
- From: milionis@nyquist.ee.wits.ac.za (Taki Milionis)
- Subject: Re: Xview on NeXt
- Keywords: X, Xview, SunView
- Date: 21 Aug 91 18:35:49 GMT
- References: <1991Aug11.162744.28318@ms.uky.edu>
- Sender: usenet@quagga.ru.ac.za (Rhodes University NNTP server)
-
- In <1991Aug11.162744.28318@ms.uky.edu> raj@ms.uky.edu (Raj Yavatkar) writes:
-
- [Stuff deleted]
- > I am interested in porting Xview to Next machines and would
- >like to know whether anyone has already done it.
-
- As far as I know, you may get XNeXT.tar.Z via anon FTP from
-
- nova.cc.purdue.edu /pub/next/1.0-release/binaries/XNeXT.tar.Z
-
- I assume that the file system contains a binary file. I have not yet fetched
- the file because I do not have direct access to the NET. I would hate to
- think what would happen if I requested 8Mb with FTPMAIL.
- Could you let me know when you have successfully installed it?
-
- --------------------------------------------------------------
- Taki Milionis milionis@odie.ee.wits.ac.za
- Network Manager milionis@nyquist.ee.wits.ac.za
- Electrical Engineering ------------------------------
- Wits Univeristy
-
- From: guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris)
- Subject: Re: Xview on NeXt
- Keywords: X, Xview, SunView
- Date: 22 Aug 91 22:26:02 GMT
- References: <1991Aug11.162744.28318@ms.uky.edu> <milionis.682799749@nyquist>
-
- >> I am interested in porting Xview to Next machines ...
- >
- >As far as I know, you may get XNeXT.tar.Z via anon FTP ...
-
- Yes, but does it include XView, or is it just an X server and possibly
- "vanilla" X libraries?
-
- From: cpg@cs.utexas.edu (Carlos M. Puchol)
- Subject: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
- Summary: I can't install XNeXT in my station
- Keywords: XNeXT
- Date: 23 Aug 91 08:22:22 GMT
-
- (Sorry if this has been brought up before, I searched and didn't find anything)
-
- I have just installed the XNeXT release version 0.9.1 (MIT) on a 040
- color station. No problems in the installation. But when I click in the
- dock (or in the file viewer,) I get no response. I launch it from the
- command line and I get the following message:
- (I typed the "dwrite" they tell in the instalation before this ...)
-
- > travis % XNeXT
- > can't open root window: WindowBitmap: Can't connect to server
- > screen 0 failed initialization
- >
- > Fatal server bug!
- > no screens found
- >
- > IOT trap
- > travis %
-
- I am running version 2.0 of the Operating System.
-
- When I try to run any binary Xapplication in the station, (even with DISPLAY set to a
- machine running X (R4)) I get:
-
- > X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display
-
- 0) I don't know much about X, but as I understand from the README file
- I think need to instal the X R3 server in the machine, is this right?
-
- 1) Do I need to have X (R3) running in my box to be
- able to diplay something run in the NeXT box in its display?
-
- 2) Do I need to have X (R3) running in a remote machine to be
- able to diplay something run in the NeXT box, in that remote machine's display?
-
- 3) I am quite confused because the documentation with this release
- of XNeXT is REALLY poor. Can anybody help me with this ?
-
-
- Thanks a bunch,
-
- Carlos Puchol
-
- Computer Sciences Department
- The University of Texas at Austin
- cpg@cs.utexas.edu
- (NeXT mail accepted :^)
-
- From: lacsap@plethora.media.mit.edu (Pascal Chesnais)
- Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me : ^)
- Date: 23 Aug 91 11:56:25 GMT
- References: <1838@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu>
- Sender: news@news.media.mit.edu (USENET News System)
-
- From the FAQ:
-
- There is a X11R3 version named XNeXT developed by MIT. This version
- is available in binary only, works only on monochrome machines and does
- not work under Release 2.0 of the NeXT OS. XNeXT is a 1-bit black and
- white server. XNeXT is available from most ftp sites that have
- NeXT software.
-
- ---
-
- I will send a note to the keepers of XNeXT to fix the readme. There is
- no plan to fix this server. Do not ask me for more info on X, I do not
- use it.
-
- pasc
- --
- Pascal Chesnais, Research Specialist, Electronic Publishing Group
- Media Laboratory, E15-351, 20 Ames Street, Cambridge, Ma, 02139 (617) 253-0311
- email: lacsap@plethora.media.mit.edu (NeXT)
-
- From: winkowsk@issun3.stc.nl (Daniel Winkowski)
- Subject: HyperMedia HW/SW Suggestions Needed
- Date: 23 Aug 91 06:26:16 GMT
-
-
- I am searching for suggestions on platforms and software products that meet the
- below requirements for a hypermedia authoring and display system. I would
- prefer commercial proven products but will also look at research and public
- domain software. In the below discussion the term slide/card is used to refer
- to the most primitive element of a presentation.
-
- Key: * Requirement + Nice to have
-
- Media Types: Importation from other sources
- ------------
- * Text * Graphics (color preferred)
- + Video + Sound + Annimation
-
- Presentation:
- -------------
- * Color Monitor * Projection system + TV
-
- Architecture:
- -------------
- + Supports cooperative authoring over a network
-
- Organization/Control:
- ---------------------
- * Can impose a standard toplevel framework to a presentation
- * Can link a slide/card to others - "hyper like links"
- * Dialogs/Indicators may be added to provide user control of which
- link will be followed.
- * Can link a slide/card to a programatic routine for automatic updating (e.g.
- from a database, spreadsheet, or another application/process).
- * Control by some type of computer language and/or an expert system langauge
- + Programatic building of slides/cards.
-
- User Interface:
- ---------------
- * Given a set of slides/cards to author, in depth knowledge of computers should
- not be required (programmer support may be required for linking to other
- applications). --> Intuitive authoring interface.
-
- Programatic Support:
- --------------------
- + For those features which are not commercially provided and must be
- programmed, the platform/software should provide development support for
- a rapid prototyping initiative.
-
- ===============
-
- From: pranav@unx.sas.com (Pranav Patel)
- Subject: SAS on NeXT demo at the next TUNG meeting
- Date: 25 Aug 91 03:17:54 GMT
- Sender: pranav@unx.sas.com (Pranav Patel)
-
- It seems my first attempt to post this failed. So if you get this by mistake
- forgive.
-
-
-
- The next Triangle Area Users of the NeXT Group (TUNG) meeting will be on august 27th(tuesday).
- The meeting will be hosted by SAS Institute in their Cary Headquarters.
- The Topic of the meeting will be a demonstration of SAS on the NeXT platform.
- The meeting will be at 6:30pm. The quard at the gate will direct you.
- If you have any questions please feel free to call me at 919-677-8000 ext 7545.
- I will include the following general directions to the Institute.
-
-
- >From chapel hill and durham. take I-40 EAST to raleigh.
- Get off on exit for Harrison Avenue(exit 287). Take a right at the exit.
- The next left at the stop light is SAS Institute.
-
-
- >From Raleigh take I-40 WEST to durham and chapel hill take the
- Harrison Avenue exit(exit 287). Take a left at the exit stop light.
- Cross the Bridge and the next left at the stop light is SAS Institute.
-
- thanks
-
- -pranav patel-
- Graphical User Interfaces Project Manager
- Open Systems Research & Development
- SAS Institute Inc.
- SAS Campus Drive
- Cary, NC 27513
- pranav@sas.com
-
- envisage before you saltate.
-
- From: tybalt@milton.u.washington.edu (Prince of Cats)
- Subject: hex tool
- Summary: D**n BL cubes that don't come with the hex wrench
- Keywords: hex tool alternates
- Date: 26 Aug 91 01:43:00 GMT
-
-
- I love my NeXT, honestly I do, almost as much as my girlfriend (well, no,
- but ;))...anyhow, beings as I got my cube through the fire sale, I managed
- not to get a hex wrench with my cube...anybody know where in the hell to get
- one that will work? I tried 2 full sets of standard hex wrenches, none of
- which worked. How much (if it's possible) is it to order one from NeXT?
- Could a substitute be found elsewhere?
- I want to install my RAM!!! &^%&$*&**$#%!@#%!#$^$%^
- Grrrr...
-
- Thanks for any info... :)
-
- From: mcdonald@cs.sfu.ca (Ken Mcdonald)
- Subject: Network updating problem on NeXT
- Date: 25 Aug 91 22:38:03 GMT
-
- I'm currently doing som programmin in Common LISP on a Next--I write
- the code at home on my mac, upload it to a SUN (because I have a Zmodem
- binary for the Sun, but not for the NeXT), and then login on the NeXT
- to actually run and debug the code. Since the Sun and NeXT are networked
- together, this shouldn't cause problems, but in fact the NeXT sometimes
- doesn't become aware of the new, just-uploaded file for a very long time--
- which can be quite annoying, and wastes a lot of my time. I've been told
- this is due to a caching problem with the NeXT, but the person who told
- me this didn't have any suggestion for fixing the problem. Anyone out
- there who can help?
-
- Thanks in advance,
- Ken McDonald
- mcdonald@cs.sfu.ca
-
- From: daugher@cs.tamu.edu (Walter C. Daugherity)
- Subject: Re: hex tool
- Keywords: NeXT hex tool
- Date: 26 Aug 91 15:42:47 GMT
- References: <1991Aug26.014300.11761@milton.u.washington.edu>
- Sender: usenet@helios.TAMU.EDU
-
- In article <1991Aug26.014300.11761@milton.u.washington.edu>
- tybalt@milton.u.washington.edu (Prince of Cats) asks where
- to get a hex tool (for removing the back panel to install
- more RAM, etc.).
-
- Reading the Friendly Manual, Appendix C of the User's
- Reference says "you can buy another one from your
- Authorized NeXT Service Center or use a three-millimeter
- ball-tipped hex wrench, which can be bought at a hardware
- store."
-
- P.S. I am posting this reply to comp.sys.next as well as
- comp.sys.next.misc for the benefit of the original poster.
-
- From: doug@foxtrot (Douglas Scott)
- Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
- Date: 26 Aug 91 17:32:22 GMT
- References: <1838@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu>
- Sender: root@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu
-
- In article <1838@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> cpg@cs.utexas.edu (Carlos M. Puchol)
- writes:
- > I am running version 2.0 of the Operating System.
- >
- > When I try to run any binary Xapplication in the station, (even with
- DISPLAY set to a
- > machine running X (R4)) I get:
- >
- > > X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display
- >
- > 0) I don't know much about X, but as I understand from the README file
- > I think need to instal the X R3 server in the machine, is this right?
-
- Ouch. No. The R3 server (XNeXT) does not run on the 2.0 machine
- at all. Throw it and all its binaries, etc., away right now.
-
- > 1) Do I need to have X (R3) running in my box to be
- > able to diplay something run in the NeXT box in its display?
-
- First see above answer. Then, you need to run an X server of some sort on your
- machine to do anything with X. What is a "NeXT Box"? The X root window on the
- NeXT?
-
- > 2) Do I need to have X (R3) running in a remote machine to be
- > able to diplay something run in the NeXT box, in that remote machine's
- display?
-
- Have you worked with any form of X before? One of the basic principles is that
- you usually run the X server locally, but can run applications remotely.
-
- > 3) I am quite confused because the documentation with this release
- > of XNeXT is REALLY poor. Can anybody help me with this ?
-
- Dump it, and grab the newer version of the X server off of the Net somewhere
- (one of the NeXT archives). It is called Mouse-X. Everything in it is
- identical to a standard X11R4 release, except it has its own pre-compiled
- server, which has a couple of special tricks built in. There should be
- documentation with it.
-
- There is also a commercial X release out call CoXist, for around $400 I hear.
-
- --
- Douglas Scott (805)893-8352
- Center for Computer Music Research and Composition
- University of California, Santa Barbara
- Internet: (NeXTMail ok) <doug@foxtrot.ucsb.edu>
-
- From: root@next1.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Operator)
- Subject: test
- Date: 26 Aug 91 21:28:49 GMT
- Sender: root@pkyn.wimsey.bc.ca (Operator)
-
- test
-
- From: mcoste@next.com (Michel Coste)
- Subject: Re: test--please ignore
- Date: 26 Aug 91 21:38:46 GMT
- References: <1991Aug13.005917.4800@balor.apple.com>
- Sender: news@NeXT.COM
-
- In article <1991Aug13.005917.4800@balor.apple.com> mikel@balor writes:
- > This is a test.
- > This is only a test.
-
- test too
-
- From: kari@finn (Kari Karhi)
- Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
- Date: 26 Aug 91 22:55:11 GMT
- References: <1233@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu>
- Sender: usenet@pensoft.uucp (Usenet Psuedo User)
-
- In article <1233@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> doug@foxtrot (Douglas Scott) writes:
- > There is also a commercial X release out call CoXist, for around $400 I hear.
- >
- It's actually only about half of that. The above figure includes Motif and the
- documentation in Digital Librarian format.
-
- Sorry for the commercial, but I did not want to leave a wrong impression on
- anyone's mind.
-
- Kari Karhi
- Pencom Software
- (512)343-1111
-
- From: terry@sonia.math.ucla.edu
- Subject: need recommendations for MIDI project
- Date: 27 Aug 91 02:39:34 GMT
- Sender: terry@MATH.UCLA.EDU
-
- Hi, everyone!
-
- I am soon to start on a programming project and am looking for a few
- recommendations for compilers, libraries, etc.
-
- The project will involve MIDI, the Musical Instrument Digital Interface.
- The main thing I need to do is "get and put music". For example, I
- would like to be able to read the signals coming in off a MIDI device
- (say, a keyboard) and display the notes being played.
-
- Target platforms (minimum configurations) will be:
-
- PC: 8 MHz XT, monochrome, 512K, hard disk
- Mac: SE, monochrome, 2 Mb, hard disk
- NeXT: well, the minimum NeXT should be sufficient 8-)
-
- The PC is the primary target.
-
- Right now, I expect to be developing in C++, given the popularity and
- portability of the language and number of third-party tools & libs
- available.
-
- So ....
-
- 1. Can anyone recommend a C++ compiler? After reading reviews, I am
- down to
-
- Borland: speed, lotsa tools, Windows support
- Zortech: speed, Mac, OS/2 and UNIX versions available
- JPI: multi-language support
-
- ... I don't know diddly about Mac and NeXT compilers ...
-
- 2. What are good references for
-
- MIDI standard?
- MIDI programming?
-
- 3. Are there standards for interfacing to MIDI cards? How many types of
- MIDI adapters are out there, anyway? Are they available on the Mac and
- NeXT? Will a box that plugs into a PC MIDI card work with one in a Mac?
-
- 4. According to _Computer Language_ mag, you can interface C++ with
- the MacApp libraries. Has anyone ever done this? Do you need a particular
- C++ compiler?
-
- 5. I could use libraries for
-
- Screen design
- General-purpose, high-speed graphics
- MIDI (may roll my own there)
-
- I am leaning towards the Zinc Interface lib for the PC. However, something
- supported on multiple platforms would be nice.
-
- Also, when you use a interface library, like Zinc, can you mix its graphics
- with stuff from a general-purpose library? For example, if I were writing
- a drawing program, I might use a interface lib to lay out the standard
- "sketchpad" with a top menu bar. I would then want to be able to use
- general-purpose routines to "draw" in the sketching area. I'm worried
- about the interface manager's "layers" or screens or viewports or
- whatever screwing me up, like forgetting to redraw my sketches when
- it redraws the screen for whatever reason. Is this a problem? Am I
- just being paranoid?
-
- Thanks for reading this long post. Please reply by e-mail, and I will
- send summaries to anyone interested and post the results to the net.
-
- Thanks again!
-
- Terry McKiernan
- terry@math.ucla.edu, terry@law.ucla.edu
-
- From: an602@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James M. Bernatowicz)
- Subject: NeXT Brochure/Info Wanted
- Date: 27 Aug 91 06:15:22 GMT
- Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
-
-
- Hello. I am evaluating my options for a new system. I'd really like
- a UNIX workstation, and somebody mentioned NeXT. I know nothing of these
- machines, (and little more about Suns.) If someone could please point
- me in the direction of a NeXT representative, I'd be most appreciative!
- I am located in Cleveland, OH but will be moving the The University of
- Michigan in Ann Arbor soon.
-
- I'd like to know prices, hardware "under the hood," and the selling points.
- In other words, the pros/cons of a NeXT workstation.
-
- What do you people use it for? (Besides posting test messages to
- comp.sys.next? :-)
-
- Thanks in advance, jmb
-
-
- From: dscy@eng.cam.ac.uk (D.S.C. Yap)
- Subject: Re: Network updating problem on NeXT
- Date: 27 Aug 91 03:22:15 GMT
- References: <1991Aug25.223803.19666@cs.sfu.ca>
- Sender: @eng.cam.ac.uk
-
- Try "touch"ing the file.
-
- Davin
-
- From: ravend!brian@netcomsv.netcom.com (Brian Caslis)
- Subject: Internal Drive for NeXTcube for sale
- Keywords: NeXT cube hard drive sale
- Date: 27 Aug 91 07:26:18 GMT
- Sender: news@ravend.uucp
-
- For Sale:
-
- Maxtor 8380S 340MB Full Height 5.25" Hard Drive. Used as
- an internal drive in a NeXTcube. Drive has performed flawlessly,
- I only need more space! Drive is best suited as an internal drive
- for a NeXTcube. An external case would be required for a NeXTstation.
- Price is $700 OBO. If interested please call (415)694-4189 or e-mail.
-
- ---
- Brian Caslis * NeXTmail accepted!
- * Internet: ravend!brian@netcomsv.netcom.com
- * or brianc@synopsys.com
- * UUCP: ...decwrl!apple!netcom!ravend!brian
-
- From: dweissman@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (WiseGuy)
- Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
- Date: 27 Aug 91 15:22:34 GMT
- References: <1233@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> <1991Aug26.225511.16733@pensoft.uucp>
- Sender: news@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov
- News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
-
- In article <1991Aug26.225511.16733@pensoft.uucp>, kari@finn (Kari Karhi) writes...
- ^In article <1233@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> doug@foxtrot (Douglas Scott) writes:
- ^> There is also a commercial X release out call CoXist, for around $400 I hear.
- ^>
- ^It's actually only about half of that. The above figure includes Motif and the
- ^documentation in Digital Librarian format.
- ^
- ^Sorry for the commercial, but I did not want to leave a wrong impression on
- ^anyone's mind.
-
- Try about $350 with Motif and Digital Librarian.
- ================================================================================
- Dave Weissman - Broadband and FDDI LAN Operations Group
-
- Snail mail: NSI DECNET (SPAN) - 6153::DWEISSMAN
- Code 543.8 NSI TCP/IP - dweissman@<128.183.112.2>
- Goddard Space Flight Center SPRINTnet's X.400 -
- Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,P:GSFC,FN:DAVID,SN:WEISSMAN)
-
- From: tmab+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas Mok)
- Subject: Alternative input device
- Date: 27 Aug 91 21:02:55 GMT
-
- Does anyone know whether there are commercial barcode readers that can be
- used as input devices for the NeXT?
-
- Tom Mok
-
- P.S. What are touch screen?
-
- From: jiro@shaman.com (Jiro Nakamura)
- Subject: Re: Connecting An Apple Scanner to a NeXT
- Date: 28 Aug 91 22:17:25 GMT
- Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
-
-
- Concerning connecting an Apple Scanner to the NeXT:
-
- 1) There were no set SCSI commands for controlling a scanner until SCSI-2.
- Most of the scanners on the market (Canon, Apple, HDB, etc.) use proprietary /
- incompatible commands for scanning. This causes problems for folks who want to
- scan.
-
- 2) The scanner object bundled with Scene only talks to HDB scanners and
- scanners that are OEMed from the same supplier (I forgot the name, I believe it was
- a german company). The chances of a random scanner having the same command
- set is pretty slim.
-
- 3) Most companies that sell scanners for the NeXT and Apple will sell you their
- software only, so that foiks who have previously purchased their machines for their
- Apples aren't left out. Of course, Apple Inc. does not produce such software for the
- NeXT machines.
-
- 4) The Shaman Group is currently working on the concept of scanner
- independence from a (non-scanner) developer's perspective. Eventually, we (or other
- people cooperating in our project) hope to support as many scanners as we can. But
- the project is currently still a sparkle in our minds, so don't expect it any time soon.
-
- - jiro nakamura
- jiro@shaman.com
-
- From: cs00jec@unccvax.uncc.edu (Jim Cain)
- Subject: Missing all discussions
- Keywords: arggh mad as fire
- Date: 28 Aug 91 22:50:01 GMT
-
-
- Well, we still don't get the new c.s.n groups. I've read *twelve* new
- messages in the last week. This really pisses me off, but I understand
- the reason, I suppose. When I asked when it would be looked into, I
- received the following:
-
- [from one admin:]
-
- Jim, I don't know. It won't be soon. We are very busy getting up
- 97 more Sun's and 5 more servers - and that's just in Engineering.
- News is a nice feature, but it is not something that Dean's and
- Chairmen demand to have going for their researchers. [sic, to death!]
-
-
-
- Oh, well.
-
- From: hschaffn@tsypac1.UUCP (Heinz Schaffner)
- Subject: NeXT Info Wanted
- Date: 28 Aug 91 12:47:32 GMT
-
- Hello:
-
- We are located in Toronto, Canada, and are looking for information on the
- location of a local (or close) NeXT distributor or reseller.
-
- Thanks in advance
-
- Heinz Schaffner
- ..!uunet!torsqnt!tsypac1!hschaffn
-
- From: francisr@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Rob Francis)
- Subject: Benchmarks on the fortran compiler?
- Date: 29 Aug 91 01:52:15 GMT
- Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
- Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
-
- Does anyone have some benchmarks on the fortran compiler for the NeXT?
- I've gotten some replies from people like, "Faster than a XXX" or "Not
- as fast as a XXX", but I'd really like to get hold of some real
- numbers.
- Please reply via email. I'll post a summary if there's interest.
- Thanks in advance,
- Rob
-
- Rob Francis
- francisr@indiana.edu
-
- From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeff Fire)
- Subject: How Can I Restart/Reset-From-FIle Workspace Without Loging Out (for me account)
- Date: 29 Aug 91 01:57:08 GMT
- Sender: news@milton.u.washington.edu (News)
-
-
- I use a "me" account that won't save Workspace settings (i.e. Dock &
- File Viewer settings).
-
- All I have is a permanent directory.
-
- Can I restart the Workspace without loging out?
-
- Can I reset the Workspace via a file (not interactively)?
-
- Can "Edit" record and play back commands (via recorder or macros)?
-
- Can "Edit" select a "box" of text (i.e. select certain columns
- and rows via mouse)?
-
- Pleas e-mail me if you have any info.
-
- From: slp@genrad.uucp (Stephen L. Peters)
- Subject: Re: Missing all discussions
- Keywords: arggh mad as fire
- Date: 29 Aug 91 19:06:18 GMT
- References: <3657@unccvax.uncc.edu>
- Sender: news@genrad.UUCP
-
- In article <3657@unccvax.uncc.edu> cs00jec@unccvax.uncc.edu (Jim Cain) writes:
- [note from his sysadmins saying, in effect, that they're too busy to
- trifle with News]
-
- Well, pardon my flamage, but I think this is really stupid. If you're
- not going to administer your news system then *what's the point of
- being a news administrator*??? The add date for the new groups was
- July 7 -- over 7 weeks ago!!! How much further behind are they?
- Since that time 22 other groups have been created in non-alternate
- hierarchies alone.
-
- In my humble opinion, being a news administrator is *not* a full-time
- job, especially if the system is more or less already set up.
- However, if you let the backlog get to be too big, it will become a
- major undertaking.
-
- No matter what the "Deans and Chairmen" want, the thing that matters
- most in any administration is upkeep. 97 Suns and five servers later,
- the news problem will still be huge, and then it will be put off
- because of problems with the new machines (I'm willing to place a
- small wager on this).
-
- I don't know what kind of setup your school (or business?) has, but if
- they have the budget (they should, 97 Suns don't come cheap), they
- should try getting a student or someone to become a part-time news
- administrator. The main sysadmins get the time they need to work, and
- the news users get service. Everyone is happy.
-
- Sorry. I may not know the entire situation, but this kind of
- procrastination on the part of the admins bugs me.
-
-
- "Brutus assassinated Caesar, what, 2000 years ago? |
- And here's a high-school dropout with a $1.25 an | Stephen Peters
- hour job in Dallas, Texas who knows who he was. | slp@genrad.com
- And they say fame is fleeting." -- JWB, _Assassins_ |
-
- From: paladin@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert Wen)
- Subject: Cube prices
- Date: 29 Aug 91 22:43:55 GMT
- Sender: paladin@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert Wen)
-
- Hi netters!!
- I'm interested in obtaining a Nextcube and am interested in seeing
- what prices and educational discounts are like at other places.
- Actually, I wouldn't mind an 030 cube either (hint, hint). If anybody could
- post or e-mail any information it would be greatly appreciated.
-
-
- From: an602@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James M. Bernatowicz)
- Subject: Re: Cube prices
- Date: 30 Aug 91 03:51:08 GMT
- References: <1991Aug29.224355.29948@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
- Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
- Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu
-
-
- In a previous article, paladin@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert Wen) says:
-
- >Hi netters!!
- > I'm interested in obtaining a Nextcube and am interested in seeing
- >what prices and educational discounts are like at other places.
- >Actually, I wouldn't mind an 030 cube either (hint, hint). If anybody could
- >post or e-mail any information it would be greatly appreciated.
-
- Please post those replies! I'd like to see that info also. Thanks!
-
-
- From: blakemor@software.org (Alex Blakemore)
- Subject: looking for Ada compilers on the NeXT horizon
- Summary: Is anyone planning on releasing an Ada compiler for NeXT ?
- Keywords: Ada NeXT
- Date: 30 Aug 91 15:31:15 GMT
-
-
- Does anyone know of existing or planned Ada compilers for the NeXT ?
- I remember some literature that claimed Janus was planning a NeXT version.
-
- From: dar@reef.cis.ufl.edu (David Risler)
- Subject: Re: Cube prices
- Date: 30 Aug 91 16:22:19 GMT
- References: <1991Aug29.224355.29948@en.ecn.purdue.edu> <1991Aug30.035108.607@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
- Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU
-
-
- John from ufl.nerdc sent me this number for NeXT educational discount
- prices. They are still working off the Spring '91 prices, but they should
- decrease and the new list is due out sometime October (according to annonymous
- tip form guy at NeXT). Here it is: 1-800-848-NEXT.
-
- From: baldwa@ondine.adobe.com (Sanjay Baldwa)
- Subject: Need and implementation of malloc_size()
- Date: 29 Aug 91 21:12:32 GMT
- Sender: news@adobe.COM
-
- Hi,
-
- Could somebody mail me an implementation of malloc_size()? as in the
- malloc(3) family of functions. We are in a process of moving to another
- system and malloc(3) library doesn't have malloc_size().
-
- Thanks,
-
- Sanjay
-
- --
- baldwa@adobe.com or ..!decwrl!adobe!baldwa
-
- From: jncs@uno.edu
- Subject: Re: looking for Ada compilers on the NeXT horizon
- Date: 30 Aug 91 20:00:07 GMT
- References: <1991Aug30.153115.11720@software.org>
- Sender: news@cs.tulane.edu
-
- In article <1991Aug30.153115.11720@software.org>, blakemor@software.org (Alex Blakemore) writes:
- >
- > Does anyone know of existing or planned Ada compilers for the NeXT ?
- A Meridian representative called me this week to let me know the existance of
- Ada for the NeXT; her name is Linda Souza. (714) 727-0700. Ext 224.
-
- Jaime Nino
- Computer Science Department
- University of New Orleans
-
- From: baldwa@ondine.adobe.com (Sanjay Baldwa)
- Subject: Need and implementation of malloc_size()
- Date: 29 Aug 91 21:04:21 GMT
- Sender: news@adobe.COM
-
- Hi,
-
- Could somebody mail me an implementation of malloc_size()? as in the
- malloc(3) family of functions. We are in a process of moving to another
- system and malloc(3) library doesn't have malloc_size().
-
- Thanks,
-
- Sanjay
-
- --
- baldwa@adobe.com or ..!decwrl!adobe!baldwa
-
- From: an602@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James M. Bernatowicz)
- Subject: 24 Pin Matrix Printer on a NeXT?
- Date: 31 Aug 91 00:12:58 GMT
- Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu
- Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu
-
-
- I suspect the answer is no, but I thought I'd ask. I have an NEC P5200
- 24 pin dot matrix printer, and I'd like to know if I would be able to use
- it if I bought a NeXT. Is there is a parallel port on the NeXT?
-
- Are there ANY other printing alternatives?
-
- Thanks!
-
- Jim
-
- From: labb-4ea@e260-3d.berkeley.edu
- Subject: When will we be getting the software!!!!!
- Date: 31 Aug 91 05:24:21 GMT
- Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator)
- Originator: labb-4ea@e260-3d.berkeley.edu
-
-
- I have purchased a NeXT in early January from the University of California
- at Berkeley. After patiently waited for three months, the machine finally
- arrived in the middle of march. However, the machine does not include
- mathematica, nor does deliever the NeXTStep software which I have orderd
- along with the computer.
-
- So far, the machine is sitting on desk does nothing, since I have intended
- to use it for programming and number crunching purpose, and I have neither
- the mathematica nor the NeXTStep software.
-
- Does anyone who purchases the NeXT computer actually be able to get hold
- of NeXTStep release 2.1, or the mathematica? If not, does anyone has
- any vague idea of how soon that we will be able to receive the software?
-
-
- I have pressed the computer store for a defnite deadline for receiving the
- software, but all they can tell me is we can only deliver what the NeXT
- Inc. send to us.
-
- Reply please send to stevek@corwin.barra.com
-
- From: perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer)
- Subject: Re: 24 Pin Matrix Printer on a NeXT?
- Date: 31 Aug 91 09:21:05 GMT
- References: <1991Aug31.001258.1928@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
-
- an602@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James M. Bernatowicz) writes:
-
-
- >I suspect the answer is no, but I thought I'd ask. I have an NEC P5200
- >24 pin dot matrix printer, and I'd like to know if I would be able to use
- >it if I bought a NeXT. Is there is a parallel port on the NeXT?
-
- >Are there ANY other printing alternatives?
-
- Yes and no.
- I heard from a program that makes the NeXT able to print with
- a nec 2200. And there will be some other drivers, soon!
- Also it is possible to put a parallel-interface on you scsi-port.
- On the other hand, the NeXT printer is not that expencive, but it is much better
- than any pinwriter.
-
- so long
- perstoro
-
-
-
-
-
-
- *****************************************************************
- * perstoro@netmbx.in-berlin.de | NeXT mail is *very* welcome! *
- * perstoro@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de | *
- *****************************************************************
-
- From: atau@ccrma.Stanford.edu (Atau Tanaka)
- Subject: Re: need recommendations for MIDI project
- Date: 31 Aug 91 21:45:56 GMT
- References: <1991Aug27.023934.21056@math.ucla.edu>
- Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News)
-
- terry@sonia.math.ucla.edu writes
- > I am soon to start on a programming project and am looking for a few
- > recommendations for compilers, libraries, etc.
- >
- > 2. What are good references for
- >
- > MIDI standard?
- > MIDI programming?
- >
- > 3. Are there standards for interfacing to MIDI cards? How many types of
- > MIDI adapters are out there, anyway? Are they available on the Mac and
- > NeXT? Will a box that plugs into a PC MIDI card work with one in a Mac?
- >
-
- The International MIDI Association (IMA) is the main clearinghouse for
- obtaining the MIDI Specification. They're right in LA, so you can look them up.
- Let me know if you can't, and I'll dig up the number. On the Mac, it seems as
- though most MIDI programmers use the Think C compiler.
-
- As for MIDI interfaces, the NeXT and Mac serial ports are nearly compatible -
- Opcode and others make interfaces that work in both (watch out, with NeXT's 040
- motherboards, serial ports A and B are not the same, and Mac MIDI interfaces
- seem to work in serial B).
-
- There are software MIDI drivers available online for the NeXT, and from Opcode
- or Apple for the Mac (Opcode MIDI System and MIDI Manager, respectively).
-
- You really ought to check out the state of the art of what's already available
- out there in the commercial MIDI software world. Opcode and Mark of the Unicorn
- and Passport are good places to start with the Mac, and Mike McNabb's
- "Ensemble" is an example that ships with the next.
-
- Atau Tanaka
-
- From: atau@ccrma.Stanford.edu (Atau Tanaka)
- Subject: Terminal menubar
- Keywords: shell, preference
- Date: 31 Aug 91 21:51:42 GMT
- Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News)
-
- Here's a how-come:
- How come Terminal is the only program that refuses to place its menubar where
- you've told the Prefs app to put menubars? I've got my menubars placed over on
- the right hand side of my screen so as to free up valuable real estate in the
- upper left hand corner. Every app accedes to this except Terminal.
-
- Also, cmn3 still doesn't register with People. Even when I'm on, running People
- shows "nobody" on cmn3. Should I take this personally?
-
- Atau Tanaka , atau@ccrma.stanford.edu
-
-