Nebula 1/Nebula One.iso/Utilities/File/splitter/Aug

Internet Message Format | 1991-11-26 | 94.0 KB

From: [e-mail] (Lennart Lovstrand)
Subject: Re: 'cut'
Date: 1 Aug 91 10:21:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (danny) writes:
> >does anyone know where i could get the src or
> >if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...
>
> Cut is a System V utility. Not surprising that you can't find it. There is
> a BSD utility called 'colrm' for removing specified colums. You might try
> that instead of cut until you can get the sources.

You can get "cut" from the GNU fileutils package by anonymous ftp to
prep.ai.mit.edu.  See pub/gnu/fileutils-2.1.tar.Z.

Please folks, try to somehow move over to the new comp.sys.next.xxx
newsgroups.  Do whatever necessary; bribe, threaten, or take your local
sysadmin for a joyride on your NeXTmobile to make them available if they
aren't already.

--
--Lennart <[e-mail]>
Rank Xerox EuroPARC, 61 Regent St, Cambridge, CB2 1AB, UK.

``The first thing we do let's kill all the lawyers.''
    [Hamlet, The First Part of the Contention, 4.2, line 78]

From: [e-mail] (Shing Shong Shei)
Subject: Re: Problems compiling Perl
Date: 1 Aug 91 14:09:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Carl Edman) writes:
>   >This problem has nothing to do with the optimizer. It is with libnm.a
>   >which is included by default by Configure. Just run Configure again,
>   >and remove libnm.a. That will produce a perl which compiles and
>   >self-tests just fine.
>
>  No, I don't think so.  I did encounter the error message about the libnm.a
>  as described in the first message.  I ranlib it and it did complain about
>  not symbol table.  Still I went ahead and link it, the generated perl was
>  okay, i.e., it passed "make test".
>
>Why do you disagree ? We are saying exactly the same thing. Whether
>you link by ignoring the libnm.a error messages or properly
>reconfigure perl using Configure not to link libnm.a in at all does
>not make the slightest difference.

Sorry that I didn't make it clear.  Yes, Carl was right that this has nothing
to do with the optimizer.  But there is a small difference in removing or not
removing libnm.a.  I didn't look into if taking out the libnm reduces some
functionalities of perl or not.  But "make test" sure doesn't test ALL
functionalities of perl.  In installing this version (4.010), at some stage, I
got a version that passed "make test" but when I installed it to the system,
some of the perl scripts failed to work.  Anyway, the following script shows
that perl does link with libnm.a.

First, use "cc -v" to see how cc call the ld to link the perl.  Then try to
link one by yourself except adding "-M" asking ld to generate a load map.

=======
beldar: make CC="cc -v"
cc -v   array.o cmd.o cons.o consarg.o doarg.o doio.o dolist.o dump.o eval.o form.o hash.o  perl.o regcomp.o regexec.o stab.o str.o toke.o util.o perly.o usersub.o -lnm -ldbm -lm  -o perl
NeXT Release 2.0 (v31.1) -- GNU version 1.36
 /bin/ld -o perl -lcrt0.o array.o cmd.o cons.o consarg.o doarg.o doio.o dolist.o dump.o eval.o form.o hash.o perl.o regcomp.o regexec.o stab.o str.o toke.o util.o perly.o usersub.o -lnm -ldbm -lm -lsys_s
beldar: /bin/ld -M -o perl -lcrt0.o array.o cmd.o cons.o consarg.o doarg.o doio.o dolist.o dump.o eval.o form.o hash.o perl.o regcomp.o regexec.o stab.o str.o toke.o util.o perly.o usersub.o -lnm -ldbm -lm -lsys_s > /tmp/map
=======

Scan through the map, you will see:

=======
Load map for: perl
Segment name     Section name     Address    Size
__PAGEZERO                        0x00000000 0x00002000

__TEXT                            0x00002000 0x00030000
__TEXT           __text           0x00003a7c 0x00029480
                  0x00003a7c 0x000000a4 /lib/crt0.o
                  0x00003b20 0x00000514 array.o
                  0x00004034 0x000019fc cmd.o
                  0x00005a30 0x000020a4 cons.o
                  0x00007ad4 0x00002458 consarg.o
                  0x00009f2c 0x00002b24 doarg.o
                  0x0000ca50 0x00003c38 doio.o
                  0x00010688 0x00003274 dolist.o
                  0x000138fc 0x00006618 eval.o
                  0x00019f14 0x00000bd4 form.o
                  0x0001aae8 0x000009f0 hash.o
                  0x0001b4d8 0x000020e8 perl.o
                  0x0001d5c0 0x00001568 regcomp.o
                  0x0001eb28 0x00001034 regexec.o
                  0x0001fb5c 0x00001af0 stab.o
                  0x0002164c 0x00001f2c str.o
                  0x00023578 0x00006590 toke.o
                  0x00029b08 0x00000ed8 util.o
                  0x0002a9e0 0x00001df4 perly.o
                  0x0002c7d4 0x0000000c usersub.o
                  0x0002c7e0 0x00000050 /usr/lib/libnm.a(trig.o)
                  0x0002c830 0x000002a4 /usr/lib/libnm.a(atan2.o)
                  0x0002cad4 0x000002f4 /usr/lib/libnm.a(pow.o)
                  0x0002cdc8 0x00000034 /usr/lib/libnm.a(exp.o)
                  0x0002cdfc 0x0000002c /usr/lib/libnm.a(log.o)
                  0x0002ce28 0x0000002c /usr/lib/libnm.a(sqrt.o)
                  0x0002ce54 0x000000a8 /usr/lib/libnm.a(support.o)
        ...
                  0x0002f994 0x00000038 /usr/lib/libnm.a(atan2.o)
                  0x0002f9cc 0x00000028 /usr/lib/libnm.a(pow.o)
__TEXT           __cstring        0x0002f9f4 0x0000260a
        ...
======

From: [e-mail] (Stephen L. Peters)
Subject: Re: NeXT groups
Date: 1 Aug 91 11:55:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (KIAKAS stefanos) writes:
>the new groups are:
>
>    comp.sys.next.misc
>    comp.sys.next.announce
>    comp.sys.next.programer (maybe 2 m's)
>    comp.sys.next.sysadmin
>
>hope this helps

Yes, it's with 2 m's --
    comp.sys.next.programmer

Now, all of you, shoo!  Shoo shoo shoo!
Go join comp.sys.next.misc -- you've already missed the two major
flame wars this season -- one against NewsGrazer, the next against
[e-mail]   Don't miss whatever the next battle is about to be!

                Stephen Peters

From: [e-mail] (Kevin Weinrich)
Subject: Can't boot
Summary: Just received used system, "Exception #2" on boot, help
Date: 1 Aug 91 15:41:29 GMT

Expires:
References:
Sender:[e-mail]

Keywords:

We just had a cube "donated" (it's a long story) to us.  I'm
trying to get in touch with the donors, but in the meantime
maybe one of you kind souls have seen this before (I've
never used a NeXT before, I'm a Sun sysadmin):
On boot, I see "Testing system" and "Loading from disk" with
the appropriate graphic.  Within a second of the graphic
starting to "spin", I enter the ROM Monitor (2.2 (v63)) and
get :
   Exception #2 (0x8) at 0x4380012
and the Monitor prompt.  With the Optical Cart. (Software Release
2.0) loaded, I try "bod test".  Same result.
I can't find anything about "Exceptions" in the few manuals it
came with.  Could this be due to a problem in shipping.

I greatly appreciate any tips.  Replies to [e-mail]
would be most welcome.  I will try to get our sysadmin to add
the new newsgroups, but they're not available yet, or I would
have asked there.
-Kevin Weinrich

From: [e-mail] (Alexander Malkin)
Subject: Perl on NeXT?
Date: 1 Aug 91 20:58:38 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

This is probably in a FAQ, but could someone tell me where to get Perl
for the NeXT?

Thanks.

  Alex  ([e-mail]  or  uunet!ksr!malkin)

From: [e-mail] (John Robison)
Subject: The new groups
Date: 1 Aug 91 22:09:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (John Robison)

OK all, forward this to your sysadmins
to get the new groups. This is from
news.announce.newgroups.

[irrelevant stuff deleted]

The following USENET groups have been created in the past month:

GROUP                         ADD DATE              NOTES
==============================================================================
comp.sys.next.announce          7 Jul   moderated, [e-mail]
comp.sys.next.misc              7 Jul
comp.sys.next.programmer        7 Jul
comp.sys.next.sysadmin          7 Jul

John

From: [e-mail] (Carl Lowenstein)
Subject: Re: 'cut'
Date: 1 Aug 91 14:52:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (danny) writes:
>hi!
>i can seem to find this program in 2.0...
>
>does anyone know where i could get the src or
>if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...

A public-domain replacement has been around for quite a while.  Look
in (e.g.) gatekeeper.dec.com:pub/comp.sources.unix/volume8/cut+paste.Z

Also ftp.uu.net:ftp/bsd-sources/usr.bin/cut
            " "        paste

Also wuarchive.wustl.edu:unix/4.3bsd-reno/usr.bin/cut
            " "            paste

Figuring that if you need cut, paste can't be far behind.


From: [e-mail]
Subject: Portable NeXTs...  (Suggestion)
Keywords: portable computers
Date: 31 Jul 91 17:40:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]


I was giving my officemate a demo of my NeXT box and it hit me that
a portable version of the NeXT box would be really slick.

Are there any plans for a portable NeXT box/slab?

Here are some features it I think it should have:

Half-height-drives (maybe 2 of them, 300Mb if possible)
Size no larger than 9''x11''x2''  (able to fit into a briefcase easily)
High-resolution mono-monitor.  (???)
Ability to sense ethernet and phone connections and appropriately mount or
    unmount    filesystems, or start or stop uucp transmissions.
Pause feature.  (the machine can be "turned-off" and then back on without
    loss of machine state.  Saves rebooting time.)
Cellular modem (with proper error handling would be a plus, 9600 would be
    nice).
Mouse/Track-ball options.

What do you think?


    Nicolai Kosche    [e-mail]    {pyramid,sun,mtxinu}!sybase!nk
I speak only for myself and I do not reflect the views or position of Sybase.
Anything included in this message is provided at your own risk.

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: The new groups - hand made ? Why ?
Date: 2 Aug 91 06:46:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]>,
    [e-mail] (John Robison) writes:
> OK all, forward this to your sysadmins
> to get the new groups. This is from
> news.announce.newgroups.
>
> [irrelevant stuff deleted]
>
> The following USENET groups have been created in the past month:

    [... follow the well known four new groups ...]

Why, in all the world, do these sites need human assistance for creating
new (and approved) newsgroups ? I had 'm the day after they were announced
because our news software (ANU-NEWS 6.0-3 on VMS) supports automatic
execution of control messages. I am THE news manager for SARA.NL and I'm
sure glad I don't have to deal with this kind of details myself (why do
we have computers, anyway, if we can't automate laborious, tedious and
unrewarding - oh, well, not in this special case, of course .-) - tasks).
This way I am also sure that the rmgroup message that removes this
newsgroup on the 2nd of September will execute without my intervention
(see note below .-)

From: [e-mail] (Carl Edman)
Subject: Re: Problems compiling Perl
Date: 2 Aug 91 15:19:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: 714-856-8134.nts.uci.edu
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 1 Aug 91 14:09:57 GMT


Now I see your point. (Sorry, I thought you made the same point a
several people have made in letters to me that a) they can't "rm
libnm.a" because their sysadmin won't allow it or b) they can't find
libnm.a anywhere in the makefiles or the Configure script (it is
everywhere as -lnm)).

On the other hand clearly all the routines in libnm.a are also in
libm.a. I could not find any description of it anywhere in the
extended or developers documentation. What _does_ libnm.a do over
libm.a ?

        Carl Edman
--
Please do send mail to me at <[e-mail]>. The local sendmail
might be broken and until it is fixed the above address guarantees that I get
at least one copy. Thank you.

From: [e-mail] (Carl Edman)
Subject: Re: Perl on NeXT?
Date: 2 Aug 91 15:23:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: 714-856-8134.nts.uci.edu
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 1 Aug 91 20:58:38 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alexander Malkin) writes:
  This is probably in a FAQ, but could someone tell me where to get Perl
  for the NeXT?

Get the source from any of the standard sites (e.g. prep.ai.mit.edu)
via anon ftp. Run the Configure script. It will recognize a NeXT
computer and give you almost all the defaults you want. The only
exception is the line in which you are asked for the libraries to use.
There are some problems with libnm.a (the -lnm switch). The easiest
solution is to simply remove that switch (just give "-ldbm -lm" when
querried instead of the default of "-lnm -ldbm -lm"). After that perl
should have a few minor warnings during compilation but work without
problems.

        Carl Edman

--
Please do send mail to me at <[e-mail]>. The local sendmail
might be broken and until it is fixed the above address guarantees that I get
at least one copy. Thank you.

From: [e-mail] (Philip Machanick)
Subject: Need help in buying decision
Date: 2 Aug 91 17:04:15 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)

I'm a bit puzzled by the New NeXT's in November thread, where
there seems to be doubt that NeXT will be using the 88K. There
is an article in the San Francisco afternoon paper (Examiner?
Chronicle? - bad memory for names) quoting Jobs as saying the
88K would blow away the MIPS R4000, as if everyone knew they
were going to use it [1 August, business section].

In any case: is someone from NeXT prepared to give details of
short-term product plans to help me decide whether to go for
NeXT? Please don't tell me all the advantages of NeXT over
other platforms - I know that already.

(I haven't read this group for a while, so I may have missed
something.)

From: [e-mail] (David HOLMES)
Subject: Re: 'cut'
Date: 2 Aug 91 16:50:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Netnews Administrator)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (danny) writes:
> hi!
> i can seem to find this program in 2.0...
>
> does anyone know where i could get the src or
> if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...

We had the same problem with some backup scripts.
You can find the compressed binaries on our ftp site

archive.CC.McGill.CA

as

src/user-tools/cutBSD-4-NeXTs.Z
src/user-tools/pasteBSD-4-NeXTs.Z

________            __________________________                 __
        David Holmes                          McGILL UNIVERSITY

UNIX Support Group - Computing Centre         Montreal,  CANADA

email       [e-mail]             voice  514-398-3716
            [e-mail]           FAX    [phone]
NeXT email  [e-mail]
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Gerhard Moeller)
Subject: Re: 'cut'
Date: 2 Aug 91 07:24:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (danny) writes:
> hi!
> i can seem to find this program in 2.0...
>
> does anyone know where i could get the src or
> if there's an equivalent program (aside from sed)...
>
> i just started using a NeXTstation and was used to using
> /usr/bin/cut in my scripts that i carried over from SunOS.
>
> danny

'cut' is licenced by ATT (which is a modem-test-command). But you can get gcut
from gnu.
You should (hopefully) find it at prep.ai.mit.edu somwhere in
u2/... The file you need is, I think, fileutils1.4.
But if you can't find it and you can receive NeXT Mail, I'll send you mine.
(Just tell me if you want the source or the executable...I hope I still have
the source somewhere... ;-) )

        Fun, Gerhard.
--
+---------------------------< principiis obsta! >---------------------------+
| Gerhard Moeller, Teichstrasse 12, 2900 Oldenburg (FRG)    [Geb. 02/21/68] |
|    inhouse: gimli!gemoe                  NeXT: [e-mail]    |
|DOMAIN: [e-mail]                   |
|BITNET: gmoeller%arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de@DOLUNI1 (106495@DOLUNI1) |
+-----------------------> the medium is the message <-----------------------+

From: [e-mail] (Michael D Mellinger)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 3 Aug 91 01:52:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <ee=[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)


In article <[e-mail]> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:

   Binary compatability with what. Almost every major manufacturer that
   has looked at the 88K has found it to be technologically deficient
   in several areas. Sure it's nice that Motorolla came out with a BCS,
   but since basically noone will be using it besides Motorolla and the
   few companies that sign on, it will be a very small customer base that
   can be targeted based on an 88K BCS. Incidentally, Intel, IBM, MIPS,
   SPARC, and most other RISCs also have binary compatability standards.

Binary compatible with most every other NeXT!!  That way people who
set up networks of NeXTs don't have to play around with two different
binaries.

   I'd agree that RISC is ONE OF the most promising technologies in the
   near future, but not Motorollas version of it. Their entire
   manufacturing facilities will have to be re-worked to support the
   manufacturing of the IBM POWER RISC chip, since it uses technology
   beyond that which Motorolla currently has. How do you expect them to
   compete with a RISC chipset that is inferior to the ones they will
   be producing for their competitors.

Sabatoge IBM RISC? :-).  Hire some smart people who know something
about RISC?

   With Intel and IBM working on versions of their RISC processors that
   combine the best of RISC and VLIW technologies, and by the time that
   Motorolla gets up to speed, these other chips will be defacto standards
   with large installed customer bases and backwrad compatability with
   the first versions of their RISC-only processors.

   The 88K really is no more promising than the i860 is as a general
   purpose RISC chip. Admittedly, the i860 has more caveats than the
   Motorolla architecture, but the Motorolla is not doing much better.

The current 88K is as fast or faster than the 68040, at least from the
SPECmarks that I've seen.  A lot will depend on NeXT.  Will they ever
sell 1 million machines a year?  You might want to consider that
Motorola might still have a little company pride, and they might not
like the idea of making IBM's chips.  Look at MIPS.  They beat
everyone in the microprocessor game.  They're not exactly a large
company.

   Betting your future on the 88K is almost as smart as betting it on
   the INMOS transputer. Neither one will probably get off the ground
   except in niche markets.

This is 1991, the latter half of the 20th century.  Switching
microprocessors is only an inconvenience.  It's not going to break
every piece of software written for the NeXT(at least not
significantly).

   By the fourth quarter of this year, IBM will have reduced the POWER
   architecture to a single chip implementation. Then they will start
   producing chips with more than a 25 MHz clock speed, and watch those
   SPECmarks jump. Motorolla, on the other hand, will still be working
   the bugs out of the 2 chip implementation of the 88K... Not a
   promising chip to bet your future on...

You might be right.  What's up with the 88110?  Is it 60 mips or
100mips?  NeXT might be better of going with the MIPS R3000,
R4000(R6000...) chips.  ACE(Microsoft/DEC/Compaq/MIPS) adopting these
chips means that they will be *cheap*, and they're second sourced,
unlike Motorola's chips.

-Mike

From: [e-mail] (theodore teoh choon sun)
Subject: Cube for sale
Date: 5 Aug 91 06:41:31 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

I have an 030 NeXT Cube for sale. The configurations are:

40 MB internal harddisk(for swapping)
8 MB RAM
1 Optical Drive
2 Optical disks (System 1.0 & 2.1)
1 2400bps modem

I am asking for $3200.00 or best offer.
I will share half the cost of shipping and handling.
Interested party please e-mail to [e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (David George)
Subject: Re: IBM-APPLE Merger
Date: 5 Aug 91 14:17:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>

In the August Edition of Personal Computer World they announced that the
Apple-IBM deal was off for the forseable future, of course that may be
a short time as this magazine claimed in 1987 that "OS2 will be to DOS
what DOS was to CP/M".

David.

ref: Personal Computer World, U.K., Aug 1991, West Coast Feature.

From: [e-mail] (Ken Yee)
Subject: Portable code (GUI and otherwise)
Date: 5 Aug 91 13:31:46 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

A couple of neophyte programming questions about programming the NeXT GUI:

1) Does g++ exist for the NeXT?  I've heard rumors that it did.  If it
   did, this would solve the non-portability of Objective-C programs
   to C++.
2) Does anyone make class libraries which are retargettable to MS-Windows,
   the Mac, X-windows, Motif, as well as NeXT?.  I'd like to be able to
   take the same code and port it to different systems by just linking
   with different libraries; I've heard that XVT provides this functionality
   for MS-Windows, Mac, and X-windows...

Ken  ([e-mail]  or  uunet!ksr!kenyee)

From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 5 Aug 91 17:46:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <ee=[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]:
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]: [e-mail] (Michael D Mellinger) writes:
:
:In article <[e-mail]: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
:   Binary compatability with what. Almost every major manufacturer that
:   has looked at the 88K has found it to be technologically deficient
:   in several areas. Sure it's nice that Motorolla came out with a BCS,
:   but since basically noone will be using it besides Motorolla and the
:   few companies that sign on, it will be a very small customer base that
:   can be targeted based on an 88K BCS. Incidentally, Intel, IBM, MIPS,
:   SPARC, and most other RISCs also have binary compatability standards.
:
:Binary compatible with most every other NeXT!!  That way people who
:set up networks of NeXTs don't have to play around with two different
:binaries.

That would be nice, but is also possible using any of the other major RISC
chipsets that are currently available... License a little software technology,
get a much better architecture in return... NeXT has plenty to bargain with!

:   I'd agree that RISC is ONE OF the most promising technologies in the
:   near future, but not Motorollas version of it. Their entire
:   manufacturing facilities will have to be re-worked to support the
:   manufacturing of the IBM POWER RISC chip, since it uses technology
:   beyond that which Motorolla currently has. How do you expect them to
:   compete with a RISC chipset that is inferior to the ones they will
:   be producing for their competitors.
:
:Sabatoge IBM RISC? :-).  Hire some smart people who know something
:about RISC?

They should have done that a looooonnnng time ago :-) But seriously, the 88K
line will not be developed past it's current state, or so Motorolla says. Why
go with a dead chip. Sure it is fast, but if there is no room for upward growth
within the same chip line, not a real good business decision. Maybe Steve has
some inside info the rest of us don't.

:   With Intel and IBM working on versions of their RISC processors that
:   combine the best of RISC and VLIW technologies, and by the time that
:   Motorolla gets up to speed, these other chips will be defacto standards
:   with large installed customer bases and backwrad compatability with
:   the first versions of their RISC-only processors.
:
:   The 88K really is no more promising than the i860 is as a general
:   purpose RISC chip. Admittedly, the i860 has more caveats than the
:   Motorolla architecture, but the Motorolla is not doing much better.
:
:The current 88K is as fast or faster than the 68040, at least from the
:SPECmarks that I've seen.  A lot will depend on NeXT.  Will they ever
:sell 1 million machines a year?  You might want to consider that
:Motorola might still have a little company pride, and they might not
:like the idea of making IBM's chips.  Look at MIPS.  They beat
:everyone in the microprocessor game.  They're not exactly a large
:company.

FAST does not make good, or upgradeable into the future. And saying MIPS
beats everyone in the microprocessor game is a bit ludicrous. They are
struggling to keep up with the others right now. The R4000, when it arrives,
is SUPPOSED to be a promising chip... We'll just have to see how it stacks
up against the POWER chip, HP chips, etc.

It's a good bet that IBM has some scary technology jumps in store for us in
the near future, as they try to regain the market share they have lost in
the past few years due to proprietary architectures, operating systems,
software and networking strategies.

BTW, the NeXT/IBM alliance is far from dead, from what I hear...

:   Betting your future on the 88K is almost as smart as betting it on
:   the INMOS transputer. Neither one will probably get off the ground
:   except in niche markets.
:
:This is 1991, the latter half of the 20th century.  Switching
:microprocessors is only an inconvenience.  It's not going to break
:every piece of software written for the NeXT(at least not
:significantly).

Try to tell VARs and secondary software developers this. Especially if
they have tuned their application(s) to the current hardware. Sure, it
is 1991, but it is not as easy as you would like to believe or have the
rest of us believe. At least it will be easier for them to PORT to the
new hardware and software, given the NeXT development environment, but
it will NOT be trivial. It sounds like you have never done a major port!

:   By the fourth quarter of this year, IBM will have reduced the POWER
:   architecture to a single chip implementation. Then they will start
:   producing chips with more than a 25 MHz clock speed, and watch those
:   SPECmarks jump. Motorolla, on the other hand, will still be working
:   the bugs out of the 2 chip implementation of the 88K... Not a
:   promising chip to bet your future on...
:
:You might be right.  What's up with the 88110?  Is it 60 mips or
:100mips?  NeXT might be better of going with the MIPS R3000,
:R4000(R6000...) chips.  ACE(Microsoft/DEC/Compaq/MIPS) adopting these
:chips means that they will be *cheap*, and they're second sourced,
:unlike Motorola's chips.


Chris
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(__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_

From: [e-mail] (George Wu)
Subject: HitchHiker 1.1
Date: 5 Aug 91 19:20:48 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr. News Himself)


I am trying to use HitchHiker 1.1 on a NextStation and having problems
when opening the serial port.  It seems whenever I try to open up a
serial port(a or b) the program immediately starts to send a stream of
L's out to the port and clicking on the Parameters button bombs the
program.  The on-line documentation provides no clue as to what's
going on here.  Can anyone help ?

  Thanks,
  George Wu


P.S. I am pretty sure the modem is hooked up correctly since I can run
tip with no problems.

From: [e-mail] (Michael D Mellinger)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 5 Aug 91 20:29:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <ee=[e-mail]:
    <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]:
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)


In article <[e-mail]> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:

   Try to tell VARs and secondary software developers this. Especially if
   they have tuned their application(s) to the current hardware. Sure, it
   is 1991, but it is not as easy as you would like to believe or have the
   rest of us believe. At least it will be easier for them to PORT to the
   new hardware and software, given the NeXT development environment, but
   it will NOT be trivial. It sounds like you have never done a major port!


How are developers tuning their apps for the 68040?  NeXT has some
work to do, but most developers don't have much work at all!  They can
build 68040 and 88K (or any other chip) binaries from a single source.
Possibly the same source they're using today.

-Mike

From: [e-mail] (Bob Sutterfield)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 5 Aug 91 21:42:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <ee=[e-mail]:
    <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]:
    <[e-mail]> <uq4Hdx#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <uq4Hdx#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael D Mellinger) writes:
   In article <[e-mail]> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
      ...Especially if [VARs and secondary software developers] have
      tuned their application(s) to the current hardware.

   How are developers tuning their apps for the 68040?

Usually without much effort at all.  It's very easy to write code that
runs well on one type of processor architecture.  The hard work comes
in writing very portable code without any assumptions about the
underlying iron.

   NeXT has some work to do, but most developers don't have much work
   at all!

It depends upon how much work the developers did up front to make
their code portable.  If they're experienced in writing code to run on
a variety of processors, then their code is probably already most of
the way there.  If they have only worked on one or two types of
machines, then they may discover a lot of hidden assumptions.

Not to sound snooty or anything, but how many NeXT developers came
"up" from (e.g.) Macintoshes, and how many came "down" from other UNIX
systems?  The former group has been living in a sheltered, forcibly
homogenous world, where the biggest shock in recorded history was the
introduction of Color QuickDraw and 32-bit addressing, which wouldn't
have bothered any of them if they had been writing portable code in
the first place.  The latter group has seen it all before, and will
have a much easier time of it.

   They can build 68040 and 88K (or any other chip) binaries from a
   single source.  Possibly the same source they're using today.

Yes, they can, if the code is well written.  But the toughest time in
any UNIX code's life cycle is typically its first port to a RISC
architecture.  I've ported "super-portable" code that was written on a
VAX to a Sun-1 and a Sun-2 and a Pyramid, and from a Sun-1 to a Sun-2
to a Sun-3 to a Sun-4, and from several other things to 88K and MIPS
and IBM RTs and RS/6000s.  It's uniformly harder to move from a CISC
machine to a RISC machine, because the RISC machines are uniformly
pickier.  If the author isn't careful about the original assumptions
about (e.g.) byte ordering and structure packing and array index
incrementing efficiency (row vs column), it can sometimes be easier to
pitch the code and rewrite it all from the specs.  If they still
exist.

From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 5 Aug 91 22:11:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <ee=[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]> <uq4Hdx#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]


In article <uq4Hdx#[e-mail]> you write:
>
>In article <[e-mail]> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>
>   Try to tell VARs and secondary software developers this. Especially if
>   they have tuned their application(s) to the current hardware. Sure, it
>   is 1991, but it is not as easy as you would like to believe or have the
>   rest of us believe. At least it will be easier for them to PORT to the
>   new hardware and software, given the NeXT development environment, but
>   it will NOT be trivial. It sounds like you have never done a major port!
>
>
>How are developers tuning their apps for the 68040?  NeXT has some
>work to do, but most developers don't have much work at all!  They can
>build 68040 and 88K (or any other chip) binaries from a single source.
>Possibly the same source they're using today.

In many cases this is true, but it is NOT true in many other cases. Have you
ever ported a large application before? Have you ever written a large app
before--One which REQUIRED the use of assembly level programming for
time critical apps or specialized optimization? In my experience, even moving
apps from one BSD 4.3 system to another BSD 4.3 system (both may be variants)
are not always as simple and straight-forward as you imply.

What if large portions of the optimized software I write is assembly for
the 68040. I suppose you think that this would require a minor port to
the 88K. I don't think so. Nor do many other independent software
developers. Believe it or not, many time critical and specialy optimized
pieces of code are STILL WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE.

Of course if you have some special tool that will migrate 680x0 assembly
to 88K assembly transparently and without programmer intervention, I think
a lot of people might become real interested (if NeXT moves to an 88K
platform). I'd be one of them.

Chris
   __
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(__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_

From: [e-mail] (Ross G. Cutler)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 6 Aug 91 05:47:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <uq4Hdx#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Bertholf) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>developers. Believe it or not, many time critical and specialy optimized
>pieces of code are STILL WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE.

Admittedly, some stuff is written in assembly for speed, but
how many NeXTstep Apps are?  That is the real question...  My guess is
that virtually none use assembly (except for some DSP stuff).  In all of the
NeXT PD source code that I've looked through in the archives, I haven't see
one line of 68000 assembly code.  NeXT doesn't want people to use
assembly, and this is reflected in the total lack of documentation for
as(1).  Personally, I think this is a Good Thing, even though I use
assembly myself (for hacks only).  In summary, I don't foresee any big
problems in porting large applications (e.g. Improv, WP, Diagram), since
I doubt very much that any of these packages have any assembly code in them
at all.  Ross.

NeXTstep: It not like your father's computing environment...

From: [e-mail] (Lloyd)
Subject: Re: DADiSP 2.01C Demo
Date: 6 Aug 91 06:37:45 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]



GEEEE, was that ported from MS-DOS???? I would have NEVER guessed.
*GAG*

Chris
[e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Lloyd)
Subject: 68k->88k
Date: 6 Aug 91 02:42:27 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]


[ blah blah, all sorts of stuff about going to the 88k and porting]

FINE, porting is no small task, thats not really the point, who cares if
porting from VMS with little endian processor, diff compilers, diff libs
etc etc to a Sun 3 is some work. The *point* is porting from 68k NeXT to 88K
NeXT:

68k and 88k will have the same endianess (88k can be big or small)
The OS will be the same.
The libraries will be the same.
The word size will be the same.
The files will be in the same place.
etc etc ETC ...

The only data point really is anything that revolves around assembler,
which is small to non-existant in *most* cases, fine, someone may have
an entire app out there in 68k, they knew it would be unportable the minute
they started it. I am currently writing some code which requires small little
bits of asm for bitfield work, its isolated and uses gcc in-line assembler
directives, it will take me about 15 minutes to port to the 88k. Big deal.

I sincerely do not think there is all that much 68k assembler for the NeXT
out there...if there is, I would be interested to hear from people, and
how much they actually have to port and *why* they did it in assembler in the
first place.

Chris
[e-mail]

From: kari@finn (Kari Karhi)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 6 Aug 91 14:14:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Psuedo User)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Ross G. Cutler) writes:
> Admittedly, some stuff is written in assembly for speed, but
> how many NeXTstep Apps are?  That is the real question...  My guess is

co-Xist server uses some asm() calls that are mc680x0 specific.

From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 6 Aug 91 18:07:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <uq4Hdx#[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]:
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]: [e-mail] (Ross G. Cutler) writes:
:In article <[e-mail]: [e-mail] (Chris Bertholf) writes:
:[stuff deleted]
::developers. Believe it or not, many time critical and specialy optimized
::pieces of code are STILL WRITTEN IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE.
:
:Admittedly, some stuff is written in assembly for speed, but
:how many NeXTstep Apps are?  That is the real question...  My guess is
:that virtually none use assembly (except for some DSP stuff).  In all of the
:NeXT PD source code that I've looked through in the archives, I haven't see
:one line of 68000 assembly code.  NeXT doesn't want people to use
:assembly, and this is reflected in the total lack of documentation for
:as(1).  Personally, I think this is a Good Thing, even though I use
:assembly myself (for hacks only).  In summary, I don't foresee any big
:problems in porting large applications (e.g. Improv, WP, Diagram), since
:I doubt very much that any of these packages have any assembly code in them
:at all.  Ross.
:

I seem to remember that EDIT and several other apps were written in assembly.
Just because you have not found any assembler in the marginally helpful,
generally small pieces of software on the archives does not mean that the
proprietary apps don't have them.

Try porting code from a CISC to a RISC. If you have not taken the UTMOST
care to make the code portable, it is a bitch... It doesn't even have to
be assembly language we are talking about. Many programmers make incorrect
assumptions about a variety of things (bit operations, bit fields, byte
ordering, to name a few) that make it very difficult to port from a CISC
to a RISC, or even to another different CISC.

In addition, Who says that these developers only want to develop for the
NeXT. With the new SGI boxes, people may want to write portable apps for
both boxes. Multimedia apps. Do that in a portable fashion. Especially
graphics and sound... Oh, and don't use any assembly for the processors
that do not even have C or other language compilers.

Chris
   __
  /  ) /
 /    /_  __  o _
(__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_

From: [e-mail] (Ross G. Cutler)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 6 Aug 91 19:43:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]>

[stuff deleted]
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>
>I seem to remember that EDIT and several other apps were written in assembly.
>Just because you have not found any assembler in the marginally helpful,
>generally small pieces of software on the archives does not mean that the
>proprietary apps don't have them.

How do you know Edit was written in Assembly?  Did you see the source?
It doesn't make any sense to me that it would be.  In fact, if you type

    otool -v -o /NextApps/Edit

you can see that there are lots of custom Obj-C files.  I could not find any
traces of *.s files in Edit; it is possible that some assembly was used...
but I highly doubt it.  GCC is a very good compiler, and produces very good
code.  And since the NeXT is damn fast (as least as far as apps like Edit is
concerned), why would any programmer taint his OOP code with assembly?

Ross.

From: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 6 Aug 91 22:36:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> you write:
>[stuff deleted]
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>>
>>I seem to remember that EDIT and several other apps were written in assembly.
>>Just because you have not found any assembler in the marginally helpful,
>>generally small pieces of software on the archives does not mean that the
>>proprietary apps don't have them.
>
>How do you know Edit was written in Assembly?  Did you see the source?
>It doesn't make any sense to me that it would be.  In fact, if you type
>
>    otool -v -o /NextApps/Edit
>
>you can see that there are lots of custom Obj-C files.  I could not find any
>traces of *.s files in Edit; it is possible that some assembly was used...
>but I highly doubt it.  GCC is a very good compiler, and produces very good
>code.  And since the NeXT is damn fast (as least as far as apps like Edit is
>concerned), why would any programmer taint his OOP code with assembly?

Well, I might be wrong, but then the thread about EDIT originally being
written in MOSTLY assembly that occurred in reference to another thread
on comp.sys.next should have drawn a little more heat than it did...
How do you know that large portions were not written in assembly?
Did you see the source? Another Poster has pointed out that CoXist has
several assembly hacks to get the job done... I was just pointing out one
app that I heard had some major assembly work in it...

I find it interesting that you say "taint", when most or all of the
programmers and application developers I know tend to optimize and
write time critical apps with combinations of C *AND* assembly. Have
you ever written real time apps, time critical apps, or done your
own optimization? (No, the -O option does not count)

In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
processor. RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes.  The
compiler has to make use of the pipelines and superscalar architecture
of the RISC chip, in addition to the register allocation problems
and the limitations of addressing memory directly versus through
the cache. Why do you think IBM has a 37% improvement in SPECmarks
without changing the clock speed of the RS/6000s, only the compilers
were changed...  BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
information that the GNU project will not have access to...

RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
chip. Poor compiler technique can result in a RISC that has a phenomenal
MIPS and MFLOPS rating, but can't outcompute an a 68K apple.

Chris
   __
  /  ) /
 /    /_  __  o _
(__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_

From: [e-mail] (Ross G. Cutler)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 7 Aug 91 00:17:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Bertholf) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>Well, I might be wrong, but then the thread about EDIT originally being
>written in MOSTLY assembly that occurred in reference to another thread
>on comp.sys.next should have drawn a little more heat than it did...
>How do you know that large portions were not written in assembly?
>Did you see the source? Another Poster has pointed out that CoXist has
>several assembly hacks to get the job done... I was just pointing out one
>app that I heard had some major assembly work in it...
>
>I find it interesting that you say "taint", when most or all of the
>programmers and application developers I know tend to optimize and
>write time critical apps with combinations of C *AND* assembly. Have
>you ever written real time apps, time critical apps, or done your
>own optimization? (No, the -O option does not count)
>
>In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
>GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
>processor. RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
>on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes.  The
>compiler has to make use of the pipelines and superscalar architecture
>of the RISC chip, in addition to the register allocation problems
>and the limitations of addressing memory directly versus through
>the cache. Why do you think IBM has a 37% improvement in SPECmarks
>without changing the clock speed of the RS/6000s, only the compilers
>were changed...  BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
>techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
>information that the GNU project will not have access to...
>
>RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
>chip. Poor compiler technique can result in a RISC that has a phenomenal
>MIPS and MFLOPS rating, but can't outcompute an a 68K apple.

    Sure, I've done lots of 286 assembly work with C, including realtime
work.  I even wrote an entire Core-like graphics library in assembly for
C, because speed was of the utmost importance.  But that was then, on on
relatively slow computers...now we have Objective-C and a relatively fast
computer.  You don't *need* assembly for applications like Improv or
Adobe Illustrator.  And the NeXT *isn't* realtime (we still use PCs for
that...).

I said "taint" because OOP is very *high* level, and assembly is very
*low* level.  You say you program in "C and assembly"; currently, I do
most of my programming in Objective-C (or C++).  OOP is what the NeXT is
about.  Assembly isn't.  That's why it isn't supported at *all*.

Finally, GCC is available on at least two RISC computers, namely the
Sun SPARCstations (SPARC CPU) and the DEC DECstations (MIPS R2/3000).
It might be availably for the PS/6000 and Snakes too.  So NeXT
is not starting from scratch (i.e. your CISC != RISC statement isn't
very relavent).

Ross.

From: [e-mail] (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 7 Aug 91 00:11:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
>GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
>processor.

It already has been.  Gcc-2 (still in alpha, "Soon" to be beta) has a lot of
features to work well on a RISC machine, including the 88k.

>RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
>on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes.

Not much.  That's one of the interesting things about CISC vs. RISC:
someone once made a compiler only use the "simple" instructions on a VAX
(including simple addressing modes), and benchmarked the output with the
output of the unmodified compiler.  Result:  the RISC-based approach was
faster.  (I really wish I could remember where this was; I'm pretty sure it
was in a UseNIX paper within the past two or three years.)

Code generation that produces fast code on a '40 is going to pretty much do
the same thing on an 88k (remember that the complex addressing modes on the
'40 are slower than the "simple" ones).

>BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
>techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
>information that the GNU project will not have access to...

Uhm, most of the stuff IBM is doing is pretty obvious to people writing
compilers.  As I said, gcc-2 is no slouch on RISC machines (I've been told
that it outperforms most other compilers for the Sparc, including Sun's; I
don't have any figures, though, so that's just anecdotal).

>RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
>chip.

So is a CISC chip.  Sheesh.


From: [e-mail] (Michael D Mellinger)
Subject: Re: New NeXT's in November?
Date: 7 Aug 91 01:30:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]:
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
In-Reply-To: a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu's message of 6 Aug 91 22: 36:22 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunws0.sys.cs.psu.edu


In article <[e-mail]> a0cb@.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:

   In addition, the argument about GCC producing tight code doesn't apply.
   GCC will have to be reworked to *EFFECTIVELY* support the 88K RISC
   processor. RISC is not CISC. The techniques for efficient compilers
   on a RISC box are very different than those for CISC boxes.  The
   compiler has to make use of the pipelines and superscalar architecture
   of the RISC chip, in addition to the register allocation problems
   and the limitations of addressing memory directly versus through
   the cache. Why do you think IBM has a 37% improvement in SPECmarks
   without changing the clock speed of the RS/6000s, only the compilers
   were changed...  BTW, IBM does not share all of its optimization
   techniques with the rest of the world--some are patented proprietary
   information that the GNU project will not have access to...

GNU GCC has already been ported to the 88K.  Data General has been
using it for quite some time.  Compiler technology plays a *very*
important role in RISC processors.

   RISC is only as good as the compilers that produce code for the RISC
   chip. Poor compiler technique can result in a RISC that has a phenomenal
   MIPS and MFLOPS rating, but can't outcompute an a 68K apple.

We already know this.  RISC isn't exactly new.  There are just a few
workstation vendors that haven't made the move to RISC yet.  NeXT, and
... that's all I can think of. GCC 2.0 will be in out sometime in the
next several months and it will include many improvements in the
optimizer, especially ones for RISC processors.  The FSF claims that
it's as good (or comes close?) to Sun's commercial compiler for
generating Sparc code.

-Mike

From: [e-mail] (Brian Cuthie)
Subject: Re: Peripheral questions
Date: 18 Aug 91 13:19:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News  posting account)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Sandeep Kochhar) writes:

    < Edited for television viewing >

> I'm in the process of buying a NeXT machine (the basic 105M slab) for home
> use, and I had a couple of questions about peripheral devices:
>
> 1. Can any SCSI external disk drive that I see in PC or MAC magazine be
>     used with a NeXT?
>    Do you have any recommendations (or "avoid this brand" advice)  about
>    where I could get a decently  priced drive (about 300-600 Megs)?
>
> 2. I also am looking at buying a Tape Drive both for Backups and for
>     transferring large amounts of data between the NeXT  and a
>     Sun Sparcstation at work.  The Sun Sparcstations that I have
>     access to use a Cartridge Tape Drive that, I think, uses a
>     format called "Quick 150".  Anyone know where I could get a
>     tape drive for that (and approx prices...)?  If that is a bad
>     choice,  please let me know as well...
>

Whatever you do, these days, buy a DAT drive.  The DDS standard (which is used
in the DAT drives) is compatible accross drive manufacturers.  What's nice
about DAT is that you get 2 gig on a $10 tape with a transfer rate of 10M
bytes/minute.  The QIC (Quarter Inch Cartridge) drives are a little less
expensive, but you will pay for it in time and tapes (they are about $20 - $30
each -- and you'll need more of them) over the long haul.

I recommend the Archive DAT drive.  It can be had from several mail order
houses that list in the back of MacUser.  It's not black but it is real nice.
I got mine from APS (big ads in the back of MacUser and MacWorld) for about
$1500.

BTW:  Avoid the scum company that is advertising in the back of MacUser and
MacWorld.  They claim to be a mail order house, *but* they have a 900 number
instead of an 800 number.  They want several dollars a minute to place an order
by telephone *and* they want $10 (!!!) if you call their 900 FAX number!  I
believe the schmucks call themselves "Bottom Line".  Obviously they're more
concerned with *their* bottom line than yours...

-Brian

> Please reply by e-mail if possible.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sandeep Kochhar

From: [e-mail] (Eric T. Kouba)
Subject: crash with writenow
Date: 19 Aug 91 17:31:22 GMT

I have a new 8/200 machine that has been giving me problems at
random intervals.  I have been using mainly WriteNow, so that
is where the crashes occur.  After creating a new document, or
opening up a new one, and after some period of editing (with
or without saves in between), I get a panic dialog box popping
up.  Something about invalid descriptor during table walk.
I wrote down all of the relevent codes the last time it happened,
but don't have it with me at the moment.  From what I've heard,
WriteNow is supposed to be a fairly hardy piece of software,
so that leaves just the operating system.  What kind of bug
would pop up at random intervals like that?

Thanks in advance.

From: [e-mail] (Eric Scott Boltz)
Subject: NeXTCube For Sale
Keywords: sale
Date: 19 Aug 91 18:56:26 GMT

****  POSTING FOR A FRIEND  ****
****  PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND ****
****  TO THIS ACCOUNT       ****


Eric,

Please post this for me.

I am selling the following NeXT configuration.

Original NeXTCube w/ megapixel display
Upgraded to 68040 & version 2.1 of the OS
667 Megabyte Wren drive
256 Megabyte Optical drive w/ two cartridges
12 Megabytes of RAM

This system is in exelent condition.  Asking $7000 or best reasonable
offer.

Send inquires to [e-mail]


From: [e-mail] (Simson L. Garfinkel)
Subject: GNU source-code availability
Date: 19 Aug 91 18:19:13 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

I just spoke with the appropriate people at NeXT.  There have been
numerous hold-ups and the company hopes to ship the floppy disks by
October.  (Groan).

However, I'm working with them to see if I can get a copy sometime
this week, which I will make available for FTP, once I get it.

................................................................simso
n



-- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
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M;&%B;&4@9F]R($944"P@;VYC92!)(&=E="!I="Y<"EP*+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN
M+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN+BXN
4+BXN+BXN+G-I;7-O;EP*7`H*?0HN
`

From: [e-mail] (John Robison)
Subject: Can't ignore (Was: Testing ... please ignore)
Date: 19 Aug 91 19:59:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (John Robison)

In article <[e-mail]> Joseph Chin writes:
> This is a test post. No one should be reading this news group anyways!
> --

BZZZTT! WRONG!!

This newsgroup is still being carried around the globe.
People are still reading (and paying) for it.

If you *MUST* play with posting, use the "to" group you should
have created when you installed news. This group is specifically
for local "testing". There is also a "local" for distribution,
or you can post to misc.test or other groups specifically
designed for testing you outgoing news functionality.

Our "local" group is "to.oceania". Look for the local group
and play there. "Testing" the capabilities of NewsGrazer
to c.s.next is certainly something we can do without!!!!

John

From: [e-mail] (Juha Muilu)
Subject: software dealers in usa
Date: 20 Aug 91 15:20:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: finsun.csc.fi


Hey,
Could somebody send a fax number(s) of the good NeXT-software
dealeri(s) in USA. Thanks.
 - Juha
 [e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Robert D. Nielsen)
Subject: Employment for NeXT Developers
Date: 20 Aug 91 17:26:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Robert D. Nielsen)

Everest Technology, Inc. is looking for three NeXT Developers.  Everest is
preparing to increasing its staff to meet the demands of a large consulting
contract.

These positions, which are full time and permanent, will require relocation to
the Bay Area in October.

The requirements are
   3 years C development experience
   2 years NeXTstep development experience

Previous application development using the Sound Kit a plus.
Oracle experience a plus

Please respond via email.
No calls please.

--
Robert D. Nielsen
Everest Technology, Inc.
Palo Alto, California

Voice    [phone]
NeXTfax  [phone]

NeXTmail [e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Richard Tilley)
Subject: Re: crash with writenow
Date: 20 Aug 91 20:48:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>

WriteNow craps often. Your Saves should be oftener :-)
A case-insensative find for "the" in the "core" file
using Edit can recover some data. Usually many copies.

From: [e-mail] (Todd M. Swan)
Subject: SimuLEARN
Date: 21 Aug 91 15:56:33 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)

I have been reading through the Spring 1991 NeXT Software and
Peripherals guide and I hav come across one of interest, SimuLEARN by
Knowlege Transfer International.  But when I call the number it is
out of service.  I called directory assistance and there is no
listing.  Has anyone heard of or dealt with this product or company
or are they dead in the water?  E-mail replies please...

Todd

--
================================================================
!   PLEASE DEFINE:    ! NeXT mail    ! Todd M. Swan            !
!      Ignorance      ! replies are  ! [e-mail]      !
!      Apathy         ! encouraged!  ! Los Alamos National Lab !
=====================================! Los Alamos, NM          !
!     I don't know and               ! LANL is not responsible !
!         I don't care....           ! for my actions or words !
================================================================


-- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
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M/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/3T]/2`@("`@("`@("`@("`@("!<"@I]
!"CT]
`

From: [e-mail] (Derek at SFA)
Subject: Cheap memory and HardDrives Where?
Date: 21 Aug 91 20:26:39 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

I am looking for a place for cheap memory/HD. I have seen numerous postings but
do not have the name/number around. I believe chip merchant has been
mentioned alot. Any help appreciated. e-mail preferred.

=derek

From: [e-mail] (Kirsten C. Jacobus)
Subject: GIF converter
Date: 21 Aug 91 21:48:44 GMT

Are there any GIF readers/converters out there in PD/FTP land for the
NeXT?


From: [e-mail] (Taki Milionis)
Subject: Re: Xview on NeXt
Keywords: X, Xview, SunView
Date: 21 Aug 91 18:35:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Rhodes University NNTP server)

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Raj Yavatkar) writes:

[Stuff deleted]
>    I am interested in porting Xview to Next machines and would
>like to know whether anyone has already done it.

As far as I know, you may get XNeXT.tar.Z via anon FTP from

nova.cc.purdue.edu   /pub/next/1.0-release/binaries/XNeXT.tar.Z

I assume that the file system contains a binary file. I have not yet fetched
the file because I do not have direct access to the NET. I would hate to
think what would happen if I requested 8Mb with FTPMAIL.
Could you let me know when you have successfully installed it?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Taki Milionis              [e-mail]
Network Manager            [e-mail]
Electrical Engineering        ------------------------------
Wits Univeristy

From: [e-mail] (Guy Harris)
Subject: Re: Xview on NeXt
Keywords: X, Xview, SunView
Date: 22 Aug 91 22:26:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <milionis.682799749@nyquist>

>>    I am interested in porting Xview to Next machines ...
>
>As far as I know, you may get XNeXT.tar.Z via anon FTP ...

Yes, but does it include XView, or is it just an X server and possibly
"vanilla" X libraries?

From: [e-mail] (Carlos M. Puchol)
Subject: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
Summary: I can't install XNeXT in my station
Keywords: XNeXT
Date: 23 Aug 91 08:22:22 GMT

(Sorry if this has been brought up before, I searched and didn't find anything)

    I have just installed the XNeXT release version 0.9.1 (MIT) on a 040
color station. No problems in the installation. But when I click in the
dock (or in the file viewer,) I get no response. I launch it from the
command line and I get the following message:
(I typed the "dwrite" they tell in the instalation before this ...)

> travis % XNeXT
> can't open root window: WindowBitmap: Can't connect to server
> screen 0 failed initialization
>
> Fatal server bug!
> no screens found
>
> IOT trap
> travis %

    I am running version 2.0 of the Operating System.

    When I try to run any binary Xapplication in the station, (even with DISPLAY set to a
machine running X (R4)) I get:

> X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display

    0) I don't know much about X, but as I understand from the README file
I think need to instal the X R3 server in the machine, is this right?

    1) Do I need to have X (R3) running in my box to be
able to diplay something run in the NeXT box in its display?

    2) Do I need to have X (R3) running in a remote machine to be
able to diplay something run in the NeXT box, in that remote machine's display?

    3) I am quite confused because the documentation with this release
of XNeXT is REALLY poor. Can anybody help me with this ?


Thanks a bunch,

Carlos Puchol

Computer Sciences Department
The University of Texas at Austin
[e-mail]
(NeXT mail accepted :^)

From: [e-mail] (Pascal Chesnais)
Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me : ^)
Date: 23 Aug 91 11:56:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)

From the FAQ:

  There is a X11R3 version named XNeXT developed by MIT.  This version
  is available in binary only, works only on monochrome machines and does
  not work under Release 2.0 of the NeXT OS.  XNeXT is a 1-bit black and
  white server.  XNeXT is available from most ftp sites that have
  NeXT software.

---

I will send a note to the keepers of XNeXT to fix the readme.  There is
no plan to fix this server.  Do not ask me for more info on X,  I do not
use it.

pasc
--
Pascal Chesnais, Research Specialist, Electronic Publishing Group
Media Laboratory, E15-351, 20 Ames Street, Cambridge, Ma, 02139 [phone]
email: [e-mail] (NeXT)

From: [e-mail] (Daniel Winkowski)
Subject: HyperMedia HW/SW Suggestions Needed
Date: 23 Aug 91 06:26:16 GMT


I am searching for suggestions on platforms and software products that meet the
below requirements for a hypermedia authoring and display system. I would
prefer commercial proven products but will also look at research and public
domain software. In the below discussion the term slide/card is used to refer
to the most primitive element of a presentation.

Key:    * Requirement    + Nice to have

Media Types: Importation from other sources
------------
* Text            * Graphics (color preferred)
+ Video            + Sound            + Annimation

Presentation:
-------------
* Color Monitor        * Projection system    + TV

Architecture:
-------------
+ Supports cooperative authoring over a network

Organization/Control:
---------------------
* Can impose a standard toplevel framework to a presentation
* Can link a slide/card to others - "hyper like links"
* Dialogs/Indicators may be added to provide user control of which
  link will be followed.
* Can link a slide/card to a programatic routine for automatic updating (e.g.
  from a database,  spreadsheet, or another application/process).
* Control by some type of computer language and/or an expert system langauge
+ Programatic building of slides/cards.

User Interface:
---------------
* Given a set of slides/cards to author, in depth knowledge of computers should
  not be required (programmer support may be required for linking to other
  applications). --> Intuitive authoring interface.

Programatic Support:
--------------------
+ For those features which are not commercially provided and must be
  programmed, the platform/software should provide development support for
  a rapid prototyping initiative.

===============

From: [e-mail] (Pranav Patel)
Subject: SAS on NeXT demo at the next TUNG meeting
Date: 25 Aug 91 03:17:54 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Pranav Patel)

It seems my first attempt to post this failed. So if you get this by mistake
forgive.



The next Triangle Area Users of the NeXT Group (TUNG)  meeting will be on august 27th(tuesday).
The meeting will be hosted by SAS Institute in their Cary Headquarters.
The Topic of the meeting will be a demonstration of SAS on the NeXT platform.
The meeting will be at 6:30pm. The quard at the gate will direct you.
If you have any questions please feel free to call me at 919-677-8000 ext 7545.
I will include the following general directions to the Institute.


>From chapel hill and durham. take I-40 EAST to raleigh.
Get off on exit for Harrison Avenue(exit 287). Take a right at the exit.
The next left at the stop light is SAS Institute.


>From Raleigh take I-40 WEST to durham and chapel hill take the
Harrison Avenue exit(exit 287). Take a left at the exit stop light.
Cross the Bridge and the next left at the stop light is SAS Institute.

thanks

-pranav patel-
Graphical User Interfaces Project Manager
Open Systems Research & Development
SAS Institute Inc.
SAS Campus Drive
Cary, NC 27513
[e-mail]

envisage before you saltate.

From: [e-mail] (Prince of Cats)
Subject: hex tool
Summary: D**n BL cubes that don't come with the hex wrench
Keywords: hex tool alternates
Date: 26 Aug 91 01:43:00 GMT


    I love my NeXT, honestly I do, almost as much as my girlfriend (well, no,
 but  ;))...anyhow, beings as I got my cube through the fire sale, I managed
 not to get a hex wrench with my cube...anybody know where in the hell to get
 one that will work?  I tried 2 full sets of standard hex wrenches, none of
 which worked.  How much (if it's possible) is it to order one from NeXT?
 Could a substitute be found elsewhere?
   I want to install my RAM!!!  &^%&$*&**$#%!@#%!#$^$%^
   Grrrr...

  Thanks for any info...  :)

From: [e-mail] (Ken Mcdonald)
Subject: Network updating problem on NeXT
Date: 25 Aug 91 22:38:03 GMT

I'm currently doing som programmin in Common LISP on a Next--I write
the code at home on my mac, upload it to a SUN (because I have a Zmodem
binary for the Sun, but not for the NeXT), and then login on the NeXT
to actually run and debug the code.  Since the Sun and NeXT are networked
together, this shouldn't cause problems, but in fact the NeXT sometimes
doesn't become aware of the new, just-uploaded file for a very long time--
which can be quite annoying, and wastes a lot of my time.  I've been told
this is due to a caching problem with the NeXT, but the person who told
me this didn't have any suggestion for fixing the problem.  Anyone out
there who can help?

Thanks in advance,
Ken McDonald
[e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Walter C. Daugherity)
Subject: Re: hex tool
Keywords: NeXT hex tool
Date: 26 Aug 91 15:42:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Prince of Cats) asks where
to get a hex tool (for removing the back panel to install
more RAM, etc.).

Reading the Friendly Manual, Appendix C of the User's
Reference says "you can buy another one from your
Authorized NeXT Service Center or use a three-millimeter
ball-tipped hex wrench, which can be bought at a hardware
store."

P.S.  I am posting this reply to comp.sys.next as well as
comp.sys.next.misc for the benefit of the original poster.

From: doug@foxtrot (Douglas Scott)
Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
Date: 26 Aug 91 17:32:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Carlos M. Puchol)
writes:
>     I am running version 2.0 of the Operating System.
>
>     When I try to run any binary Xapplication in the station, (even with
DISPLAY set to a
> machine running X (R4)) I get:
>
> > X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display
>
>     0) I don't know much about X, but as I understand from the README file
> I think need to instal the X R3 server in the machine, is this right?

    Ouch.  No.  The R3 server (XNeXT) does not run on the 2.0 machine
at all.  Throw it and all its binaries, etc., away right now.

>     1) Do I need to have X (R3) running in my box to be
> able to diplay something run in the NeXT box in its display?

First see above answer.  Then, you need to run an X server of some sort on your
machine to do anything with X.  What is a "NeXT Box"?  The X root window on the
NeXT?

>     2) Do I need to have X (R3) running in a remote machine to be
> able to diplay something run in the NeXT box, in that remote machine's
display?

Have you worked with any form of X before?  One of the basic principles is that
you usually run the X server locally, but can run applications remotely.

>     3) I am quite confused because the documentation with this release
> of XNeXT is REALLY poor. Can anybody help me with this ?

Dump it, and grab the newer version of the X server off of the Net somewhere
(one of the NeXT archives).  It is called Mouse-X.  Everything in it is
identical to a standard X11R4 release, except it has its own pre-compiled
server, which has a couple of special tricks built in.  There should be
documentation with it.

There is also a commercial X release out call CoXist, for around $400 I hear.

--
Douglas Scott                              [phone]
Center for Computer Music Research and Composition
University of California, Santa Barbara
Internet: (NeXTMail ok)   <[e-mail]>

From: [e-mail] (Operator)
Subject: test
Date: 26 Aug 91 21:28:49 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Operator)

test

From: [e-mail] (Michel Coste)
Subject: Re: test--please ignore
Date: 26 Aug 91 21:38:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> mikel@balor writes:
> This is a test.
> This is only a test.

test too

From: kari@finn (Kari Karhi)
Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
Date: 26 Aug 91 22:55:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Psuedo User)

In article <[e-mail]> doug@foxtrot (Douglas Scott) writes:
> There is also a commercial X release out call CoXist, for around $400 I hear.
>
It's actually only about half of that.  The above figure includes Motif and the
documentation in Digital Librarian format.

Sorry for the commercial, but I did not want to leave a wrong impression on
anyone's mind.

Kari Karhi
Pencom Software
[phone]

From: [e-mail]
Subject: need recommendations for MIDI project
Date: 27 Aug 91 02:39:34 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

Hi, everyone!

I am soon to start on a programming project and am looking for a few
recommendations for compilers, libraries, etc.

The project will involve MIDI, the Musical Instrument Digital Interface.
The main thing I need to do is "get and put music".  For example, I
would like to be able to read the signals coming in off a MIDI device
(say, a keyboard) and display the notes being played.

Target platforms (minimum configurations) will be:

    PC:  8 MHz XT, monochrome, 512K, hard disk
    Mac: SE, monochrome, 2 Mb, hard disk
    NeXT:  well, the minimum NeXT should be sufficient 8-)

The PC is the primary target.

Right now, I expect to be developing in C++, given the popularity and
portability of the language and number of third-party tools & libs
available.

So ....

1. Can anyone recommend a C++ compiler?  After reading reviews, I am
down to

    Borland:    speed, lotsa tools, Windows support
    Zortech:    speed, Mac, OS/2 and UNIX versions available
    JPI:        multi-language support

... I don't know diddly about Mac and NeXT compilers ...

2. What are good references for

    MIDI standard?
    MIDI programming?

3. Are there standards for interfacing to MIDI cards?  How many types of
MIDI adapters are out there, anyway?  Are they available on the Mac and
NeXT?  Will a box that plugs into a PC MIDI card work with one in a Mac?

4. According to _Computer Language_ mag, you can interface C++ with
the MacApp libraries.  Has anyone ever done this?  Do you need a particular
C++ compiler?

5. I could use libraries for

    Screen design
    General-purpose, high-speed graphics
    MIDI (may roll my own there)

I am leaning towards the Zinc Interface lib for the PC.  However, something
supported on multiple platforms would be nice.

Also, when you use a interface library, like Zinc, can you mix its graphics
with stuff from a general-purpose library?  For example, if I were writing
a drawing program, I might use a interface lib to lay out the standard
"sketchpad" with a top menu bar.  I would then want to be able to use
general-purpose routines to "draw" in the sketching area.  I'm worried
about the interface manager's "layers" or screens or viewports or
whatever screwing me up, like forgetting to redraw my sketches when
it redraws the screen for whatever reason.  Is this a problem?  Am I
just being paranoid?

Thanks for reading this long post.  Please reply by e-mail, and I will
send summaries to anyone interested and post the results to the net.

Thanks again!

Terry McKiernan
[e-mail], [e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (James M. Bernatowicz)
Subject: NeXT Brochure/Info Wanted
Date: 27 Aug 91 06:15:22 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]


Hello.  I am evaluating my options for a new system.  I'd really like
a UNIX workstation, and somebody mentioned NeXT.  I know nothing of these
machines, (and little more about Suns.)  If someone could please point
me in the direction of a NeXT representative, I'd be most appreciative!
I am located in Cleveland, OH but will be moving the The University of
Michigan in Ann Arbor soon.

I'd like to know prices, hardware "under the hood," and the selling points.
In other words, the pros/cons of a NeXT workstation.

What do you people use it for?  (Besides posting test messages to
comp.sys.next? :-)

Thanks in advance, jmb


From: [e-mail] (D.S.C. Yap)
Subject: Re: Network updating problem on NeXT
Date: 27 Aug 91 03:22:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: @eng.cam.ac.uk

Try "touch"ing the file.

Davin

From: ravend![e-mail] (Brian Caslis)
Subject: Internal Drive for NeXTcube for sale
Keywords: NeXT cube hard drive sale
Date: 27 Aug 91 07:26:18 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

For Sale:

Maxtor 8380S 340MB Full Height 5.25" Hard Drive. Used as
an internal drive in a NeXTcube. Drive has performed flawlessly,
I only need more space! Drive is best suited as an internal drive
for a NeXTcube. An external case would be required for a NeXTstation.
Price is $700 OBO. If interested please call [phone] or e-mail.

---
Brian Caslis    * NeXTmail accepted!
        * Internet: ravend![e-mail]
        * or        [e-mail]
        * UUCP: ...decwrl!apple!netcom!ravend!brian

From: [e-mail] (WiseGuy)
Subject: Re: XNeXT: what's wrong, X or NeXT ?, (or me :^)
Date: 27 Aug 91 15:22:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <[e-mail]>, kari@finn (Kari Karhi) writes...
^In article <[e-mail]> doug@foxtrot (Douglas Scott) writes:
^> There is also a commercial X release out call CoXist, for around $400 I hear.
^>
^It's actually only about half of that.  The above figure includes Motif and the
^documentation in Digital Librarian format.
^
^Sorry for the commercial, but I did not want to leave a wrong impression on
^anyone's mind.

Try about $350 with Motif and Digital Librarian.
================================================================================
Dave Weissman - Broadband and FDDI LAN Operations Group

Snail mail:                       NSI DECNET (SPAN) -  6153::DWEISSMAN
   Code 543.8                     NSI TCP/IP        -  dweissman@<128.183.112.2>
   Goddard Space Flight Center    SPRINTnet's X.400 -
   Greenbelt, Maryland 20771      (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,P:GSFC,FN:DAVID,SN:WEISSMAN)

From: [e-mail] (Thomas Mok)
Subject: Alternative input device
Date: 27 Aug 91 21:02:55 GMT

Does anyone know whether there are commercial barcode readers that can be
used as input devices for the NeXT?

Tom Mok

P.S.  What are touch screen?

From: [e-mail] (Jiro Nakamura)
Subject: Re: Connecting An Apple Scanner to a NeXT
Date: 28 Aug 91 22:17:25 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]


Concerning connecting an Apple Scanner to the NeXT:

    1) There were no set SCSI commands for controlling a scanner until SCSI-2.
Most of the scanners on the market (Canon, Apple, HDB, etc.) use proprietary /
incompatible commands for scanning. This causes problems for folks who want to
scan.

    2) The scanner object bundled with Scene only talks to HDB scanners and
scanners that are OEMed from the same supplier (I forgot the name, I believe it was
a german company).  The chances of a random scanner having the same command
set is pretty slim.

    3) Most companies that sell scanners for the NeXT and Apple will sell you their
software only, so that foiks who have previously purchased their machines for their
Apples aren't left out. Of course, Apple Inc. does not produce such software for the
NeXT machines.

    4)  The Shaman Group is currently working on the concept of scanner
independence from a (non-scanner) developer's perspective. Eventually, we (or other
people cooperating in our project) hope to support as many scanners as we can. But
the project is currently still a sparkle in our minds, so don't expect it any time soon.

    - jiro nakamura
    [e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Jim Cain)
Subject: Missing all discussions
Keywords: arggh  mad as fire
Date: 28 Aug 91 22:50:01 GMT


Well, we still don't get the new c.s.n groups. I've read *twelve* new
messages in the last week. This really pisses me off, but I understand
the reason, I suppose. When I asked when it would be looked into, I
received the following:

[from one admin:]

Jim, I don't know.  It won't be soon.  We are very busy getting up
97 more Sun's and 5 more servers - and that's just in Engineering.
News is a nice feature, but it is not something that Dean's and
Chairmen demand to have going for their researchers. [sic, to death!]



Oh, well.

From: [e-mail] (Heinz Schaffner)
Subject: NeXT Info Wanted
Date: 28 Aug 91 12:47:32 GMT

Hello:

We are located in Toronto, Canada, and are looking for information on the
location of a local (or close) NeXT distributor or reseller.

Thanks in advance

Heinz Schaffner
..!uunet!torsqnt!tsypac1!hschaffn

From: [e-mail] (Rob Francis)
Subject: Benchmarks on the fortran compiler?
Date: 29 Aug 91 01:52:15 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu

Does anyone have some benchmarks on the fortran compiler for the NeXT?
I've gotten some replies from people like, "Faster than a XXX" or "Not
as fast as a XXX", but I'd really like to get hold of some real
numbers.
Please reply via email. I'll post a summary if there's interest.
Thanks in advance,
Rob

Rob Francis
[e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Jeff Fire)
Subject: How Can I Restart/Reset-From-FIle Workspace Without Loging Out  (for me account)
Date: 29 Aug 91 01:57:08 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News)


  I use a "me" account that won't save Workspace settings (i.e. Dock &
    File Viewer settings).

  All I have is a permanent directory.

  Can I restart the Workspace without loging out?

  Can I reset the Workspace via a file (not interactively)?

  Can "Edit" record and play back commands (via recorder or macros)?

  Can "Edit" select a "box" of text (i.e. select certain columns
    and rows via mouse)?

  Pleas e-mail me if you have any info.

From: [e-mail] (Stephen L. Peters)
Subject: Re: Missing all discussions
Keywords: arggh  mad as fire
Date: 29 Aug 91 19:06:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Cain) writes:
[note from his sysadmins saying, in effect, that they're too busy to
trifle with News]

Well, pardon my flamage, but I think this is really stupid.  If you're
not going to administer your news system then *what's the point of
being a news administrator*???  The add date for the new groups was
July 7 -- over 7 weeks ago!!!  How much further behind are they?
Since that time 22 other groups have been created in non-alternate
hierarchies alone.

In my humble opinion, being a news administrator is *not* a full-time
job, especially if the system is more or less already set up.
However, if you let the backlog get to be too big, it will become a
major undertaking.

No matter what the "Deans and Chairmen" want, the thing that matters
most in any administration is upkeep.  97 Suns and five servers later,
the news problem will still be huge, and then it will be put off
because of problems with the new machines (I'm willing to place a
small wager on this).

I don't know what kind of setup your school (or business?) has, but if
they have the budget (they should, 97 Suns don't come cheap), they
should try getting a student or someone to become a part-time news
administrator.  The main sysadmins get the time they need to work, and
the news users get service.  Everyone is happy.

Sorry.  I may not know the entire situation, but this kind of
procrastination on the part of the admins bugs me.


"Brutus assassinated Caesar, what, 2000 years ago?   |
And here's a high-school dropout with a $1.25 an     | Stephen Peters
hour job in Dallas, Texas who knows who he was.      | [e-mail]
And they say fame is fleeting."  -- JWB, _Assassins_ |

From: [e-mail] (Robert Wen)
Subject: Cube prices
Date: 29 Aug 91 22:43:55 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Robert Wen)

Hi netters!!
    I'm interested in obtaining a Nextcube and am interested in seeing
what prices and educational discounts are like at other places.
Actually, I wouldn't mind an 030 cube either (hint, hint).  If anybody could
post or e-mail any information it would be greatly appreciated.


From: [e-mail] (James M. Bernatowicz)
Subject: Re: Cube prices
Date: 30 Aug 91 03:51:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Robert Wen) says:

>Hi netters!!
>    I'm interested in obtaining a Nextcube and am interested in seeing
>what prices and educational discounts are like at other places.
>Actually, I wouldn't mind an 030 cube either (hint, hint).  If anybody could
>post or e-mail any information it would be greatly appreciated.

Please post those replies!  I'd like to see that info also.  Thanks!


From: [e-mail] (Alex Blakemore)
Subject: looking for Ada compilers on the NeXT horizon
Summary: Is anyone planning on releasing an Ada compiler for NeXT ?
Keywords: Ada NeXT
Date: 30 Aug 91 15:31:15 GMT


  Does anyone know of existing or planned Ada compilers for the NeXT ?
I remember some literature that claimed Janus was planning a NeXT version.

From: [e-mail] (David Risler)
Subject: Re: Cube prices
Date: 30 Aug 91 16:22:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]


  John from ufl.nerdc sent me this number for NeXT educational discount
prices.  They are still working off the Spring '91 prices, but they should
decrease and the new list is due out sometime October (according to annonymous
tip form guy at NeXT).  Here it is:  1-800-848-NEXT.

From: [e-mail] (Sanjay Baldwa)
Subject: Need and implementation of malloc_size()
Date: 29 Aug 91 21:12:32 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

Hi,

Could somebody mail me an implementation of malloc_size()? as in the
malloc(3) family of functions. We are in a process of moving to another
system and malloc(3) library doesn't have malloc_size().

Thanks,

Sanjay

--
[e-mail]  or  ..!decwrl!adobe!baldwa

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: looking for Ada compilers on the NeXT horizon
Date: 30 Aug 91 20:00:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Alex Blakemore) writes:
>
>  Does anyone know of existing or planned Ada compilers for the NeXT ?
A Meridian representative called me this week to let me know the existance of
Ada for the NeXT; her name is Linda Souza. [phone]. Ext 224.

Jaime Nino
Computer Science Department
University of New Orleans

From: [e-mail] (Sanjay Baldwa)
Subject: Need and implementation of malloc_size()
Date: 29 Aug 91 21:04:21 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

Hi,

Could somebody mail me an implementation of malloc_size()? as in the
malloc(3) family of functions. We are in a process of moving to another
system and malloc(3) library doesn't have malloc_size().

Thanks,

Sanjay

--
[e-mail]  or  ..!decwrl!adobe!baldwa

From: [e-mail] (James M. Bernatowicz)
Subject: 24 Pin Matrix Printer on a NeXT?
Date: 31 Aug 91 00:12:58 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu


I suspect the answer is no, but I thought I'd ask.  I have an NEC P5200
24 pin dot matrix printer, and I'd like to know if I would be able to use
it if I bought a NeXT.  Is there is a parallel port on the NeXT?

Are there ANY other printing alternatives?

Thanks!

Jim

From: [e-mail]
Subject: When will we be getting the software!!!!!
Date: 31 Aug 91 05:24:21 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET Administrator)
Originator: [e-mail]


I have purchased a NeXT in early January from the University of California
at Berkeley.  After patiently waited for three months, the machine finally
arrived in the middle of march.  However, the machine does not include
mathematica, nor does deliever the NeXTStep software which I have orderd
along with the computer.

So far, the machine is sitting on desk does nothing, since I have intended
to use it for programming and number crunching purpose, and I have neither
the mathematica nor the NeXTStep software.

Does anyone who purchases the NeXT computer actually be able to get hold
of NeXTStep release 2.1, or the mathematica?  If not, does anyone has
any vague idea of how soon that we will be able to receive the software?


I have pressed the computer store for a defnite deadline for receiving the
software, but all they can tell me is we can only deliver what the NeXT
Inc. send to us.

Reply please send to [e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Wilhelm Schaefer)
Subject: Re: 24 Pin Matrix Printer on a NeXT?
Date: 31 Aug 91 09:21:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>

[e-mail] (James M. Bernatowicz) writes:


>I suspect the answer is no, but I thought I'd ask.  I have an NEC P5200
>24 pin dot matrix printer, and I'd like to know if I would be able to use
>it if I bought a NeXT.  Is there is a parallel port on the NeXT?

>Are there ANY other printing alternatives?

Yes and no.
I heard from a program that makes the NeXT able to print with
a nec 2200. And there will be some other drivers, soon!
Also it is possible to put a parallel-interface on you scsi-port.
On the other hand, the NeXT printer is not that expencive, but it is much better
than any pinwriter.

so long
        perstoro






*****************************************************************
* [e-mail]   | NeXT mail is *very* welcome! *
* [e-mail]  |                              *
*****************************************************************

From: [e-mail] (Atau Tanaka)
Subject: Re: need recommendations for MIDI project
Date: 31 Aug 91 21:45:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)

[e-mail] writes
> I am soon to start on a programming project and am looking for a few
> recommendations for compilers, libraries, etc.
>
> 2. What are good references for
>
>     MIDI standard?
>     MIDI programming?
>
> 3. Are there standards for interfacing to MIDI cards?  How many types of
> MIDI adapters are out there, anyway?  Are they available on the Mac and
> NeXT?  Will a box that plugs into a PC MIDI card work with one in a Mac?
>

The International MIDI Association (IMA) is the main clearinghouse for
obtaining the MIDI Specification. They're right in LA, so you can look them up.
Let me know if you can't, and I'll dig up the number. On the Mac, it seems as
though most MIDI programmers use the Think C compiler.

As for MIDI interfaces, the NeXT and Mac serial ports are nearly compatible -
Opcode and others make interfaces that work in both (watch out, with NeXT's 040
motherboards, serial ports A and B are not the same, and Mac MIDI interfaces
seem to work in serial B).

There are software MIDI drivers available online for the NeXT, and from Opcode
or Apple for the Mac (Opcode MIDI System and MIDI Manager, respectively).

You really ought to check out the state of the art of what's already available
out there in the commercial MIDI software world. Opcode and Mark of the Unicorn
and Passport are good places to start with the Mac, and Mike McNabb's
"Ensemble" is an example that ships with the next.

                      Atau Tanaka

From: [e-mail] (Atau Tanaka)
Subject: Terminal menubar
Keywords: shell, preference
Date: 31 Aug 91 21:51:42 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)

Here's a how-come:
How come Terminal is the only program that refuses to place its menubar where
you've told the Prefs app to put menubars? I've got my menubars placed over on
the right hand side of my screen so as to free up valuable real estate in the
upper left hand corner. Every app accedes to this except Terminal.

Also, cmn3 still doesn't register with People. Even when I'm on, running People
shows "nobody" on cmn3. Should I take this personally?

                 Atau Tanaka , [e-mail]